What do you do?

^^ Thats a real cool point of view!! Any coin I buy stays with me, I dont flip coins and have never sold a single coin so I wont be making money and this coin will find a permanent home. I spend a lot on coins...not because I buy too many coins but because they are over priced because, like you say, people just trying to eek an few more bucks out of me. So I understand that. Its frustrating to see people so happy about buying a coin cheap, getting it slabbed so they can relist for way more money.

It probably sounds crazy but I feel I should have my coins at the lowest of prices because I truly love coins, a pure collector, I love them more and dont sell or make any money off them and dont care if I could one day. Sadly it is the pure colelctor who pays the most, the people who flip and sell who look at it as a way to make money are the people getting the best prices. If there were a way to remove profit and business from the hobby that would be great but not realistic. I look upon coins as historical object that should be collected and put on view, the information and images to be public knowledge, the coin conserved.

I have contacted sellers on ebay who were selling things misattributed thus priced wrong. I have never had a person respond and change the auction so I figured I wouldn't bother.

Again though...in everything I will research if I sell something and it is not my concern what the person makes, how he got the coin he knows nothing about, or why he is selling a coin for too little. If he is smart enough to even ask me what I think I will tell him...otherwise...I am cheap because I am not rich...I want as many coins as I can get my hands on for as little as possible...Most of the time I am overpaying for coins from dealers who know what they have and its just a matter of buying or not, its not a discussion. When asked, I have always been truthful when it comes to worth of a coin.

In fact when a guy came here some time back with a list of coins with what he thought the grades were...no pictures, you just have to give a rough estimate of worth from the info he provided. To a man every person on the forum lowballed...some ridiculously low...like 10 bucks for book price 80 bucks worth of coins...I think I was the only person who put the book price for every coin at the grade listed...

Even when a person is just asking what a lot at a certain grade would be worth, people couldn't help lowballing...when I poited it out they said stuff like 'they probably arent that grade' or 'I dont buy coins at book price'...but the guy was asking what coins at a certain grade were worth, not how much they would buy for!!

Its human nature to want to get a good deal. I will not offer to throw away MORE of my money on a coin.

 

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once again..this is not going to be popular, but my example was one in which all involved could profit (tho less) than pride oneself on buying a coin for $50 worth 10k! if you MUST have the money, couldn't you buy it., then get w/ the consignnor and auctioneer afterward and resell, splitting the profit? at least, even after fees, you and the consignor could both make close to 4k. if you can only afford a $50 coin...what a gain 4k would be and you would be sharing w/ the rightful owner!!!!! when is enough going to be enough?????

you can twist my opinion any way you wish. whether you are a dealer or a collector.....how do you think you would feel selling a 10k coin for $50??? what would you feel if it happened to your mom, dad, son, or daughter? too bad for you..guess you should have known better and had a better numismatic education (whether it was one you collected or maybe you inherited it).

i would apologize to you all if i felt different. i even tried to put my opinion in an instance where you would still make 4k off a $50 investment.
if you have never been poor or have never been taken advantage of in any transaction, it may be hard to understand my reasoning.....but really....if you were the seller and had no idea til after the auction or transaction....i guess it would be fine w/ you knowing your lack of knowledge of die variety #7 of a certain series is so special, many people (who could afford it and more) would pay 9k additional for your coin is cool. if so, would it be ok if you sold to a dealer specialist for the same price? oh well, he needs get a good deal.....

once again, i hate to be a wank, but when is enough going to be enough??? we lose track of how blessed we are when we are not eating DIRT mixed w/ butter (Haiti) as well as how truly we have a poor class here in the U.S.A. we should be happy we are able to collect coins in the true perspective of things. vent #2 over. once again proving i will NEVER win a popularity contest. sorry for the semi off topic rant.......steve

 

Duh!

The only thing that I don't like about this forum is the guys (especially the old timers) about how they're as clean as new snow - so on and so forth. I guess they have a utility which allows them to copy and paste the same response 100 or more times.

"Oh, I only collect. Oh. I'd tell the guy and if he accepts, well, hey what can I say", etc. etc. etc.

Apparently it's "OK" to rip someone off if you tell them that you're a coin collector or that you're about to rip them off.

Just REMEMBER - tell them ahead of time and then your butt is covered!!!!

Sorry for the sarcasm - it's been a long day, but I think I'm a little bit on target.

I know I couuld have said it better and more diplomatically............................

 

I offer my opinion as a novice at coin collecting but a veteran of good & bad times. The fact that you ask the question implies you have reservations about the ethics of the situation. You will live with the consequences of your decision. Is your coin hobby worth more to you than your conscience? Will getting a good deal make you feel better about yourself than doing "the right thing?" We all strike a balance between caveat emptor and caveat vendor. If you suspect the seller is making a serious error, you may wish to inform him. I have read a few complaints on this site about transactions where one party has not conducted himself in good faith. I believe asking the question implies you already know the answer.

 

It's always difficult for some people to believe that there are other folks out there with a high level of integrity. Yet, it is true. And your observation that it is mainly the "oldtimers" is probably on target. Many younger collectors have been raised in a culture that teaches them that there are no standards of behavior, look out for number one, money is the only standard to measure success, winning is the only thing, always be at the top of the class, cheating is okay, the winner is the one with the most toys, winners are the ones who take the last shot, etc... Maybe it is the fact that schools don't teach moral values, business leaders and government leaders have failed us, people no longer feel guilty about their actions, and television has spread a culture of celebrity and bad behavior. The world was never a paradise, but it's more vicious now than it was in the past. Personally, I would feel terrible if my gain was based on anothers lack of knowledge. I love to win when the playing field is level, but not by cheating.

That's just the way it is.

 

Man, interesting replies. Can't say I didn't expect some of them though. I agree with a lot that's been said, and I thank you all for your comments. Before I posted this thread, I pmed the seller about the coin, saying it was the accented hair, and asked if he would still sell it for the price he was selling it for ($8). If not, I sayed I could probably pay a little more. He hasn't replied to me yet, and I checked the thread he was selling it, and all the pics and everything were edited. So, I don't know.

My thought is, it's only a $20-$30 coin really. But, basically with cherry-picking, where do you draw the line? Obviously to cherry-pick, you might need a little more knowledge than the other person. I don't feel I am ripping anyone off, because my thought is you should know what you are selling. Check to see if there are any varieties, RPM's, etc, etc, that might make it more valuable. But, with newcomer's (I should know) you don't really take the time to learn about that stuff (not all, but I would say it is safe to say most).

But, like my original question, how do you know? Should a person just not cherry-pick? Is cherry-picking morally wrong? (just thinking out loud here, sorry) BTW, it's not the school's job to teach moral's, that should start at home imho. And I honestly am not trying to start a thread where "he is holier than though" or anything like that, I just am unsure about this, and want other collector's opinions on this matter.

Phoenix

 

How would I profit? I dont sell coins...I DONT buy coins to resell...if I am buying a coin it is because I want it in my collection, not because I am looking to make a quick profit... If I offer more money for a coin...everyone profits but me...I end up simply paying more money for a coin? Once I buy the coin. I am the rightful owner and it will stay in my collection, with hope, until well after I am gone as my collection is part of my family and they KNOW what my coins are worth...because I simply took a bit of time to find out. You can say the coin is worth X amount of dollars if I sell it, but I dont sell coins so in the end, those other people made MORE money (the usual) and I simply paid more money for a coin (the usual). You seem to think that just because I am buying coins, I must have enough money to pay top dollar for them all, even to people not bright enough to take just a little time to find out what they have.

I just wouldnt. Nor would I allow anyone I know to do such a thing...that is why I reserch and study coins...so I dont get ripped off and I can recognize a good deal...like a notgeld being sold as a medal several hundred dollars cheaper than it is worth.

Yeah, I have been taken advantage of before, it made me take more care when buying coins. Yeah,there are poor people in this world, always has been, always will be....I am not wealthy, I dont want to pay any more for a coin than I have to...haiti, poor people, dirt and butter have nothing to do with the subject at all. If I got a coin cheaper than it is worth...I would sleep well that night and be overjoyed!!

 

Everything starts at home, but all schools teach and should teach something about morality, ethics, and integrity.

- don't cheat on tests
- don't steal things that belong to classmates
- don't plagerize
- don't cut in line
- don't copy other student's homework
- bring in enough treats for everyone
- keep score honestly on the golf team
- teach how our legal system works and why
- discuss why murder and robbery are crimes
- teach why the Emancipation Proclamation and Martin Luther King were important

There are thousands of opportunities for schools to do this K-12. School is the first major interaction most of us have outside of our immediate families. Unless you want to live in a totally lawless society, this is as much a function of the school system as any other subject.

And then it comes down to real life. You and a seller where the seller doesn't know what he has. Do you take it or do you tell him first? Nobody is watching. That's when you find out if you learned anything.

 

I dont cheat, steal, plagerize, cut in line, copy other people work, I keep score honestly in games, I dont kill or rob, I work for a living, etc..etc...So I guess I am good to go in real life!! they must have done something right.

But when it comes to buying a coin, I buy it at the price offered...simple as that...now if the person has half a mind to look into the value of the coin...then I would be more than happy to tell them exactly what they have and its value as I do here and on other forums every day. Sorry...I am cheap and want things I buy to be as cheap as possible because I am not rich, I wont go out of my way to pay more and that is not morally wrong however one wants to twist it.

 

once again, not to be a wank, but your precious coins that you buy at a good price to keep....what happens if your child or relative (or whoever you love), inherit a collection they know nothing about. they take it to a dealer and sell for what seems a good price (tho because of the varieties YOU knew about, but they have no numismatic knowledge at all) they get lowballed and the dealer gets 100k of coins for 10k?? so i guess its ok and i guess whoever inherits better have a numismatic education. if they don't and lose out on 90k...oh well, guess it sucks to be them. when are people going to stop defending reasons why it is ok for them to get over, but don't let that dealer (or ebay seller, ect) sell me a cleaned coin or overrgraded. i was taught better and thank God not every collector and dealer has lost their conscience. getting lowballed or nearly having your coin collection stolen by price because of someones "superior" knowledge is why so many people leave this hobby w/ a bitter perspective, "DO UNTO OTHERS...." rant 3 over. its my opinion and i stand by it. we vastly need more consumer education and advocacy in this hobby.

 

"One mans trash is another mans treasure"

 

You can always offer more than the asking price. A price where the seller recieves more than they expected and where you obtain a really good price for the coin. Both parties are satisfied having walked away from the deal better than anticipated. Each person has a reason for buying and a reason for selling, and each hold their own value.

 

i am sure i am quite unpoular at this time, especially w/ this thread.
when referring to the columnist who had purchased a 10k coin for 50 bucks is extreme, it did happen. he bought the coin at a local auction where he lived. but at the minimum, even after buying the coin at such a good price....wouldn't it still show integrity instead of shrewdness...to at least pay the auctioneer a cut of 1000 and the owner another 2000?

i mean, you still get a 10k coin for 3050 which is amazing as it is!! at the minimum, all 3 parties are getting so much more value and money than they had ever anticiipated. especially being a professional expert in a numismatic field in which you represent! it just seems the minimum right thing to do...everyone wins !

another gentlemen offset this story w/ a purchase of his own. he found a special morgan vam in a box of $10 morgans (couple yrs ago). this coin was worth several thousand dollars. he bought the coin, then he told the dealer what it was. he then entered an agreement consigning the coin back to the dealer w/ each spiltting the profit 50%. this man is a simple collector and i have more respect for his actions than i do someone who has taught me about morgan vams.


there is a way to cherrypick for your collection where everyone can win. i just simply want more collectors in our hobby and less bitterness and heartache for novices and average collectors. life is hard enough w/o our hobby being vicious and having a bad name.