the best 64 kennedy

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by gianni, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    I don’t want to put words in your mouth, am I getting your point correct?

    When the historical record contradicts the myth or current belief that you have, the historical record must be bogus because Gilroy Roberts and Frank Gasparro didn’t know what they wrote or what happened?

    Just checking . . .
     
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  3. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    The entire history of the AH is attributed to Rick, as he discovered the coin in the early 1980s. After several years of study , he estimated that of the 100,000 of these struck, appx.40% had gone to the smelters,without anyone,s knowledge of their existence, which leaves around 40-50 thous. coins left in collections. I believe him to be the foremost numismatist with the knowledge and data for these coins, not any Mint records of the time. The mint officials in 1964 hadn't a clue about the existence of these, furthermore, I sincerely believe any records should be carefully considered as haphazardly conceived. I fully entrust Ricks study on this era of Kennedys, and believe nearly all of the numismatic community will vouch for him.
     
  4. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    I sincerely think the intent was not to deceive, but to simply file a report which would most likely would never be even seen by anyone at that period. In all honesty, I think they had their dates entered in an effort to expedite the schedule for the rush for production of the Kennedy series, without thought to specific timeframe.
     
  5. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Now you've got me wondering if Rick,s info is wrong, or if your info is correct, then what sort of cover-up or masking of the facts occurred at the Mint in 1964. Rick claims to have interviewed former Mint employees who worked at the Mint during those times and compiled his info from those interviews. Those employees are long since gone, so this leaves us with question. My big problem with the Mint report is if a couple of coins were given to Mrs. Kennedy for approval, then How did 100,000 coins get placed into proof sets? Were the dies saved and placed into service later in order to save money? Were the coins struck before approval? Were the coins sent out prior to approval. Were the coins shipped in order to save money? Any of these options would be a potential problem for the Director. Surely Mrs. Kennedy would have been pissed if any of these options actually occurred, but who would really know of any of this anyway as the coins were not even discovered until nearly 20 yrs. later. I tend to disregard Mint reports as they could have been damning at the time if the dates were accurate, not to mention a potential major problem for the Director. It was not uncommon then nor now for govt. employees to mask their mistakes for obvious reasons which may have been either dismissal or legal action.
    Just wondering.
     
  6. gianni

    gianni Active Member

    hello, the morgan was sold the next day to a private english collector who after having had it analyzed was sealed as PL 67
     
  7. gianni

    gianni Active Member

    sorry what does pcgs mean with POP HIGHER ??? I don't understand, thanks
     
  8. gianni

    gianni Active Member

    sorry what does pcgs mean with POP HIGHER ??? I don't understand, thanks
    upload_2019-6-24_11-18-33.png
     
  9. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    It's the number of coins that they have graded higher.
     
  10. gianni

    gianni Active Member

    hi, is there really a Kennedy SMS of 12.68 grams ??? over 1.4% of the official weight. thank you
    upload_2019-6-24_13-16-7.png
     
  11. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Sorry. I don't know the answer.
     
  12. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member


    I’m not sure which mint employee or when Rick Tomaska interviewed them or what details of the creation of the Kennedy half dollar they knew but Gilroy Roberts as the Chief Engraver of the United States Mint was actively involved with the creation of the Kennedy half dollar from the conception to production.

    Gilroy Roberts’ statement (linked earlier in this thread) was public at the time, in 1965 Roberts even produced a 45-rpm recording by Vantage Recording Company for public consumption. You can listen to the recording (digital) on the Newman Numismatic Portal linked here: http://omeka.wustl.edu/omeka/exhibi...s/kennedy-halfdollar/kennedy-halfdollar-audio

    Anyone who seriously researched the creation of the Kennedy half dollar should have located Roberts and Gasparro’s statements requested by Mint Director Eva Adams. It comes down to reading and comprehending the timeline of the statements, sort of like the ‘chicken or the egg’.

    The ODV – 001 (Accented Hair) 1964 Proof Kennedy dies, according to Roberts’ statement, were not tooled until after Mrs. Kennedy reviewed the trial strikes on December 17th and Secretary Dillon inspected the second trial strikes on December 27th to make sure they incorporated Mrs. Kennedy’s wishes of having the part in the hair less pronounced and more accents added.

    The ODV – 002 (Normal Hair) 1964 Proof Kennedy half dollars could be no more than when the Mint fixed the broken serif on the bottom of the I in LIBERTY on the obverse dies, they mistakenly omitted or forgot to add the accents to the hair on the new hub that Mrs. Kennedy wanted (no conspiracy or wanting a change, just an accident).

    I fail to see any logical reason to disregard or find Roberts or Gasparro’s version of events unbelievable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  13. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Sorry, don't believe a word of that attachment...will stand with Tomaska's version.
     
  14. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member


    No problem. You are free to believe whomever you want.

    I learned a long time ago that there is truth in the saying, “you can bring a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”.

    When it comes to the creation of the Kennedy Half Dollar, most reasonable people would take the documented words from the two designer and engravers of the coin that was involved in the project from conception to production.

    You say that Rick Tomaska “claims to have interviewed former Mint employees who worked at the Mint during those times and compiled his info from those interviews.” Can you site the source where Tomaska made such claim or is this something that you just made up? I understand that there is no sense in letting small things like ‘fact’ get in the way of a good story.

    I did notice that Rick Tomaska, in his book, A Guide Book of FRANKLIN & KENNEDY HALF DOLLARS (pp. 138, under History of the Kennedy Half Dollar) writes: “In fact, Mint Director Eva Adams authorized work on the coin as early as November 27, and the first dies were completed by January 2, 1964.” Funny how this information is found in Gilroy Roberts statement that you don’t believe (LOL).

    You state that, “My big problem with the Mint report is if a couple of coins were given to Mrs. Kennedy for approval, then how did 100,000 coins get placed into proof sets? Were the dies saved and placed into service later in order to save money?” No and No. Even Tomaska states that the first dies were completed by January 2, 1964. The coin(s) that Mrs. Kennedy were shown on December 17, 1963, were trial strikes (not coins from production). The coins shown to the Secretary of the Treasury on December 27, 1963, were the second trial strikes showing the modifications that Mrs. Kennedy suggested, from this the production dies were tooled.

    I do not believe it is as common as you try to make it out that government employees deliberately ‘mask’ or falsify government records. Guess if you don’t like the message you shoot the messenger.
     
  15. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

     
  16. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Have spoken with him on this and several other Kennedy issues...I D'ont ever make things up...You are entitled to your own opinion, but it is your own! You still can't explain where the 100,000 issues came from with your research, you probably got it from U-Tube, but if you have even half a heart or any respect at all for Mrs. Kennedy's feelings, you will also go along with Rick's explanation of this long since past bit of Mint recklessness.
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
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