1798 DBD Slabbed Counterfeit

Your thread title reads "...Counterfeit.", with no question mark included and no indication that you are merely offering an opinion. Even as a full time dealer since 1979 and an ex-NGC grader, I at least included the words "..looks genuine to me" and didn't state my assessment as a fact.

And while the listing might "continue unabated", you don't know what damage you might have caused the seller.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I guess you're not aware of the fact that the only thing that can be edited by the OP is the text body within a thread and not titles, unless you happen to be a Mod, who have that privilege.

However, it appears you are doing what you say I shouldn't have done in the first place? You, in your opinion, have stated I'm wrong and should correct my wrong but you don't have any proof other than your opinion (not belittling your expertise in any way, I actually value it). While I will admit I could easily be mistaken, as I have been in the past and will be guilty of in the future, I may not be wrong this time. And, as I said earlier, we will find out shortly with undeniable proof, and at that time I will take the appropriate actions concerning this thread (if incorrect will ask a Mod to amend the title or if correct will leave it alone).

Also, as I stated earlier, the title is purely my opinion just as you wanting me to amend the title is based on your opinion and neither of us have undeniable proof for either assertion, other than our opinions and while you probably have more knowledge about DBD's than I, I will still wait until the true holder of knowledge in this matter comes forth and declares the truth about the coin in question (aka: NCS).

Ribbit,
Toad :smile

Ps: I will be more cautious with my titles in the future when there's room for doubt, which, in this case, there is!

 

It will not continue unabated if I am wrong. If I am wrong, I will have the title amended but the thread is still a good thread for educational purposes in many ways.

One, this can be used as a guide to help others to determine if a coin is real or a counterfeit, regardless if the coin is real or a counterfeit.

Two, others who read it will learn not to title a thread with a "factual" look to it if there's room for doubt, even though that which comes out of our mouths (spoken/written/thought) is usually nothing more than opinion based on our attained knowledge up to that point in our lives, unless undeniable proof is pro-offered, and the need to state the obvious is only required for those who are unaware of this fact but I will use words such as you suggested (IMO) so as to reduce the possibility of anyone mistaking my words as being fact and not opinion. I watched a tv program the other day, where this guy kept saying to the police officer - "You are a #^%&%#% in my opinion." Then he went on to say - "As long as I say it's my opinion, you can't do anything about it." To say it's his opinion is obvious but by saying that doesn't make him/me/you/us less wrong when we are wrong, the only thing that does is give us an excuse to fall back on when we are wrong, which some seem to need so as to not have to admit they were wrong. I'll admit when I am wrong and I've done that before and I will do it again here when NCS says the coin is legit.

As to harming the seller, if it is a legit coin, he gets lots of traffic to his store (free advertising) but if it is a counterfeit, he will get what's coming to him and I say that because of his reaction to my message to him concerning his coin. In that message (his reply), he didn't pro-offer the fact he sent the coin to NCS, therefore, the probability is he bought it already slabbed and doesn't know for a fact if it's real or not, he just has his opinion. If I were to buy a coin like that, I'd want proof it's real and anyone who's had a coin slabbed, knows that is obtainable (slabs alone are not proof) but the counterfeitors just slab the coins and don't "complete" the full process (should be understood by anyone who's had a coin slabbed before - will not spell it out for the wrong people to read).

So, I must ask, what will you do if NCS comes back and says the coin and holder are counterfeits? You are now faced with the same dilemma I face and all because we each have an opinion but we all have opinions and I understand this and try not to get mad at anyone who thinks differently than I, because I know it's possible for me to be wrong but do you know this about yourself?


Ribbit :smile

 

Care to make a friendly wager, Toadie ?

 

What you got in mind?

Ribbit :smile

 

Here's one to add to this discussion. This coin is slabbed in a PCGS slab and has the same black spotting problem as the primary coin in this discussion. What you should look at is the black spots then ascertain whether the coin has ben cleaned (IMO it has been cleaned) then look on the slab and find where PCGS says the coin's been cleaned, then determine, in your opinion, whether the coin/slab are fakes (nothing noted on the slab label about the coin being cleaned nor the scratches):

 

I'd wager a common Morgan that the original coin in this thread is authentic.


I don't want to take too much from you.

 

Take a look at this 1909-S VDB done by a counterfeitors
And some of his Morgan counterfeits

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140213776241

 

Here's a reference coin to use in my last post:

 

Apples and Oranges...

 

Here's one more coin to use for reference to my last couple of posts:

 

Now you're starting to sound like the owner/seller of the OP coin. Are you?

Ribbit :smile

 

Now let's look at this interesting 1797 DBD which appears, in my opinion, to be similar/identical to the 1797 PCGS slabbed coin posted a few posts ago:

 

Code:

[FONT=Arial]So, I must ask, what will you do if NCS comes back and says the coin and holder are counterfeits?[/FONT]

If I am wrong I will freely admit it - I have been mistaken before and I will be again. However, in the mean time, the potential damage that you're doing if you're wrong is much greater than that which I am doing if I'm wrong. That's because there are still several days left to check things out before publicly condemning the coin.

By the way, how do you know that you will get a definitive answer from NCS and by tomorrow?

 

Perhaps if you were to cite reliable sources and back your arguments with known fact it would be easier to respect your opinions and take your commentary seriously. I would recommend the following:

http://earlydollars.org/index.asp
http://earlydollars.org/wizardhome.htm
http://home.comcast.net/~reidgold/draped_busts/page_7.html

Silver Dollars & Trade Dollars of the United States: A Complete Encyclopedia, Vol. One, authored in 1993 by Q. David Bowers and Mark Borckardt

Reiver, Jules, The United States Early Silver Dollars 1794 to 1803, Krause Publications, 700 E. State Street, Iola, WI

Taxay, Don, The U.S. Mint and Coinage, Arco Publishing Co. Inc., New York, 1966

The United States Early Silver Dollars from 1794 to 1803 by M. H. Bolender (1980)

Edit: this is directed to the original poster

 

It's truly amazing what they've done and there's no one to stop them from making copies and not stamping them "REPLICA". Counterfeiting has always been a problem since the inception of money and will continue to plague us until a better option is found, if that's possible.

Ribbit :smile

 

That is why I prefer a slab coin from the top two companies when buying anything more then say 200.00

 

It takes more than that now!

Nothing is immune to greed. So sad!

Ribbit :smile

 

Yes, it takes knowledge.
We should all be forever learning.

 

Do any of those wonderful books discuss NCS's procedures for slabbing coins or what to look out for when it comes to counterfeit slabs? I posted another NCS slabbed coin recently (also a 1798DBD) and now I will post the reverse of the original post (OP) coin and then the reverse of the latter coin (in that order) and see if you don't see a difference (notice the NCS logo and how it is transparant on one but not the other and are different colors and printed in a different order, etc...):