Scam offer ? Brass plated cents...

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Brass.htm

Saw these in Numismatic news in an ad. Seems iffy to me as a mint error. The mint's letter in the ad didn't lend much credence.

 

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What will they think of next to scam a few more people?

Ribbit

 

Ken Potter is a well-respected error expert. I don't think he is out to scam anybody.

 

They are legit. I was going to buy some from him, but found something else to blow my money on.


Not sure about the history behind them, but I know they are legit. Not sure if they are errors though.

 

Ditto,

Ken Potter is as legit as they come. Not in my interest but certainly not a scam.

 

I thought the letter from the mint was incoherent. There is a sentence that just stops in mid air "It is possible to"

and then in the last paragraph, the letter says that the color is due to (infusion of zinc into the copper plating), but then says the explanation has being disregarded. Huh?

 

That was a typo - should have been "too" as in ALSO.

Ribbit :smile

 

But is J.T. Stanton or Ken Potter a metallurgist? You can take a penny and make it purple and say it came from Venus and taking into consideration electrolysis is at work in our pennies now (copper plated zinc), who's to say it isn't a natural occurrence? Ryan just posted a funny looking penny for discussion. Does it qualify to get someone to give him more than a penny for it? Nope! Did you actually read the letter from the Department of the Treasury?


JUNE 27, 1985

Dear Mr. Potter:

This is in response to your letter dated June 17, 1985 in which you enclosed three 1985 Denver one cent coins.

The difference in color is due to the amount of zinc in the copper plate. In a proper plated cent there would be no zinc in the outer layer. However it is NOT a rarity to find zinc present.

In the plating process it is NOT uncommon for several zinc blanks to be retained in the plating tanks. After a period of time the blanks begin dissolving and contaminate the plating solution. Thus a brass plate rather than a copper plate is formed on the subsequent blanks to be plated.

It is possible to(o)

The coloration in this case is due to the INFUSION of zinc into the copper layer. However, since laboratory tests have shown a sharp boundary between layers this explanation has been disregarded.

Your coins are being returned to you with this letter.


Now, I must ask – WHAT EXACTY ARE PENNIES MADE OF?

ANSWER:

If a Lincoln Memorial penny has a date before 1982, it is made of 95% copper. If the date is 1983 or later, it is made of 97.5% zinc, with a thin copper coating, or "clad."

For pennies minted in 1982, when both copper and zinc cents were made, the safest and best way to tell their composition is to weigh them. Copper pennies weigh 3.11 grams, whereas the zinc pennies weigh only 2.5 grams.

So, now I must ask - WHAT IS BRASS?

ANSWER:

Brass is a buttery yellow alloy of zinc and copper which has been manufactured for thousands of years all over the world. The uses of brass vary depending on the percentages of zinc and copper, and which other metals have been added to alloy to bring out specific properties, but they include cartridge cases for weapons, pipes, weather stripping, decorative accents on homes, musical instruments, and household ornaments. The color of the alloy will also vary, depending on the amount of zinc: brass gets lighter in color with additional zinc, and can reach a pale yellow stage.

Basic brass has approximately 67% copper and 33% zinc, making it stronger and more durable than copper, although not as strong as metals like steel. Alloys with even less zinc start to turn reddish in color, and are sometimes called red brass. Other metals are sometimes added to the alloy include lead to make brass more workable by machine, tin, arsenic, and antimony to resist corrosion, and iron to make the brass harder and easier to forge.


So, now we know that our pennies are made of 97.5% zinc, with a thin copper coating (aka: 2.5% copper) and we know that brass is a copper-zinc alloy. Therefore, what makes these pennies special? The letter said it – “The difference in color is due to the amount of zinc in the copper plate (aka: zinc in the copper). In a proper plated cent there would be no zinc in the outer layer. However it is NOT a rarity to find zinc present.”

But then, what does the advertisement say:

We were first to offer the 1985-D "Brass-Plated Cents" after having them confirmed by the U.S. Mint Assay Department as being inadvertently struck on "yellowish" brass-plated planchets (rather than on the normal "red" copper-plated blanks).

That’s a bold face LIE! They used the word “inadvertently” when the Mint acknowledge it is not rare, therefore it isn’t inadvertent but rather, conveniently/feasibly intentional.

So the Department of the Treasury apparently knows this isn’t rare but someone who’s not credible (isn't a metallurgist) says otherwise and they even get someone who knows coins to say they are brass coated. I didn’t see Mr. Stanton say anything about rarity? I didn’t see him say anything about the quality of brass?

I busted Mr. Potter because anyone who sells a penny that’s worth a penny, for more than a penny, is running a scam. I’ll believe the scientists and commonly KNOWN facts, over someone making a buck from a penny! Plus, after more than twenty years, they’re now offering more dates & mints than ever before. What does that say about what the mint told them more than twenty years ago - it is NOT rare for this to occur - and thus, I stand by what I said earlier!

Mr. Potter would be better off staying at Hogwarts, instead of selling dressed up pennies as something they’re not. Pennies are now made from copper and zinc and brass is nothing more than a copper- zinc alloy and in the process of copper coating the zinc planchets, zinc gets in the copper and copper gets in the zinc (aka: Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup commercials) and makes it look like brass. Nothing special about that, except someone is trying to make a buck off people’s ignorance of metals: thus, he is taking advantage of them; thus, he is running a scam; thus, he is a CON-MAN!

Ribbit,
Toad :smile

 

I think you are WAY off base calling Ken Potter a CON-MAN. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Have a nice day.

 

& the plot thickens...

 

People who were selling cheap land in Flordia, back in the mid 20th century, were known as con-men, yet there was land underneath that water in the Everglades. Mr. Potter's situation is no different. You say he isn't a con-man, then would you like to buy a cheap piece of land in sunny Florida?

Those pennies are nothing more than candy-coated pocket change!

Ribbit :smile

 

I agree with Hobo. I've read alot of what Mr. Potter has written in regard to varieties and errors. Some of the varieties he lists are of questionable value to me. But I find no fault in him or the people who buy these types. I think a speared Bison nickel is a useless coin to own, but others will pay big bucks for these. But I've never seen any indication he is trying to mislead or cheat anyone. He offers a product, explains it's existence to the best of his knowledge, and lets the market decide if they want it.

 

He twisted the words of the Department of Treasury and that can get him into serious trouble. He didn't do a "play" on words, he seriously misrepresented what they said and to do that, all in an effort to make a buck off pocket change, is CHEAP! And anyone who's that cheap, deserves to be called a con-artist!

He offers nothing more than what you can EASILY find in rolls of pennies from the bank. If his advertisement stated you could go to the bank, get one hundred rolls of pennies, probably find one brass colored penny in them then go to your local coin shop and buy a plastic penny holder for it ($1.00) to keep it safe or you could send him $$$ and he'd save you all that trouble, then I'd concede he's not a con-artist. But he didn’t do that, did he? He said they are RARE and the Treasury’s letter CLEARLY said they aren't. So, who are we to believe? The United States Treasury Department or someone who’s making a buck off a penny that’s probably been in your pocket?

I just call it as it is!

Ribbit :smile

 

There is a common word used in the coin section on Ebay. Anyone know what it is? RARE! I see a new penny, came from someone's pocket change, and it's being offered for a dollar and described as RARE. Do you not laugh at those listings? I do! Do you not think them idiotic? I do! As a matter of fact, I really wish Ebay would go to a flat rate, instead of a percentage rate, to eliminate all those space wasting listings that get in my way as I'm navigating the coins listings looking for something that's actually worth more than face value.

If you think his penny is any different than those idiotic ads I just talked about, then why don't you go buy all those "pocket change" items listed on Ebay and get them the heck out of my way so I can surf Ebay without them getting in my way.

Ribbit :smile

 

If you have anything bad to say about Ken Potter you might want to do a bit of research about the man before posting.
He is certainly one of the good guys.

 

There are plenty of genuine CON-MEN, cheats, scammers and outright thieves on eBay that you should focus your energies on.

Ken Potter is very respected in the numismatic community. Perhaps you have seen his 'Varieties Notebook' column in Coin World. (Or maybe you don't read columns written by CON-MEN.)

 

I don't know the guy. I never heard of this "error", so I thought I'd ask. To me Weinberg is the error guy.

I think this item would be tough to re-sell.

Do NGC or PCGS slab these ?

 

I just wanted to add folks.
These are nothing new and have been around for years.
There are Lincoln collectors that wish to have these in their collections and that just cool with me.