Beating a dead horse or am I on to something?

Hi
So, a while back I posted about an error I saw on a old French coin I did not know how to describe. I asked the board if anyone knew what the name of this kind of error was.
Here is the thread
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-error.335881/

Anyhow...@Fred Weinburg felt it was not a mint error..... Todays update is that I have now found a second coin of the same year of the same mint with the same error. This one is in much worse condition. The areas where the error was on the first coin included the 11-noon region, that seems to have not been or worn away, but the area at one oclock on the reverse of the coin do show the same error. Its almost like a part of the collar of the mold is allowing copper to flow when struck.

Any how, here are some shots... Am I beating a dead horse? Did the same bizzare accident happen to more than one coin post minting or is this a minting error?

Thanks for your time
Gary

 

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They do both look exactly the same. I am not in any way a collector of "ancient" foreign coins, so I can't help you for this, but I will say that it looks practically the same.

However, I noticed something that looks a bit like a die crack on the better coin, but not on the worn one. This might indicate that there was a problem in the die making, and two dies had the same problems. Let's see what the others say about this coin.

 

I don't see any evidence of the crack. How can you say they are the same?

Chris

 

The idea here is not the crack, it is at one oclock on both coins at the rim

 

Yeah, forget about the crack. It has nothing to do with the coin at all. They're the same. They were just struck 10,000 coins apart. Sure!

I'm afraid that I'll have to agree with @Fred Weinberg.

Chris

 

so th

I agree the crack is there. What I am guessing is that the crack appeared after the one in worse condition was struck. My point was that the discussion is about the other aspect of what is going on at one oclock on the coin.

If you had read the link that I posted, the die crack was discussed. Yes of course it is there. What does it prove? Nothing... How long did they use the cracked die or whatever else that may have been faulty, who knows. I am asking about what the name of the this kind of error is....???
Gary

 

@cpm9ball
In fact.... looking at this from the point you made.... this lip at 1 oclock seems to be progressively larger. The coin on the left was struck in an earlier stage of die decomposition. The lip grows as the die began to cave eventually cracking. It was there before the crack, but became larger and even a more opened from 11 to noon allowing that second area of lip to form on the coin on the right. Somehow this die did not fit quite right, I dont know. I just have never seen this kind of error, and I am confident it was in the minting. I bet I can find more examples on ebay if I start looking.

I dont know... I thought someone else might have seen something like this before.

 

I'll just have to agree to disagree. Let us know if you find another coin with more definitive proof....one way or the other.

Chris

 

Hi @cpm9ball
What exactly are you disagreing with?

Clearly the lip exists in the same place on both coins. That is beyond dispute.

Is your theory this is just damage done outside the mint to both coins?
Thanks
Gary

 

Coins back then were struck differently than the way they are minted now.. The issue looks similiar but it's really nothing major Just some kind of finning.

 

@cpm9ball
You wanted more examples... here you go...

Different mint and different year, the error appears at 5 oclock on the reverse of the coin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35693-FRAN...410507?hash=item4ae61f998b:g:rzMAAOSwsXFZNzxW

 

@paddyman98
I agree with you the error does not seem rare.
I just found a different example.

My question was, What is the name of this kind of error....

Finning? Never heard the term.... but I can look into it.

 

Yes finning..

 

Here is a thread I created over 2 years ago -
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/finned-rim-explained-6000th-post.290930/

 

@paddyman98
Finning does seem correct...... Thank you very much. I think I finally have my answer despite the naysayers...


Abnormally Strong Strike:
Finning
Definition: A fin is a thin flange that extends vertically from the rim/edge junction of a coin struck within the collar. It is caused by excessive striking pressure or a localized increase in striking pressure caused by slight die tilt. The extra pressure causes coin metal to squeeze into the narrow gap between die neck and collar. Fins can develop on either face or both faces simultaneously. A fin may encircle a coin or may be restricted to one pole. The latter is the kind typically produced by die tilt.


http://www.error-ref.com/finning/

 

@paddyman98
Yes, indeed, great thread. Wish I had seen it before posting and i would have known the answer. I am shocked @Fred Weinberg did not know this. I thought he had seen everything!

Finning it is.... and far more dramatic than the examples of the modern US coins you had in that thread.

Many thanks for the education.
Gary

 

You are welcome.

 

No one has ever seen everything, as just when you think it is so, man or circumstances make a new one.

 

Not finning. I strongly suspect these were not struck in a close collar bur rather an open collar and you don't get finning with an open collar.

The two 1770 coins are not from the same die, and i don't think the irregularity on the 1773 coin is the same as on the 1770 coins. The similarity of the two 1770 coins makes me wonder about possibly a damaged blanking punch.

 

FWIW - I do know what 'finning' or finned rims look like,
and what causes it.