Copper conservation help needed

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Seattlite86, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Aside from being more wet, no visible changes after 24+ hours. Soaking will continue for another 5 days or so.
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  3. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    It looks like some of the green stuff is gone. Maybe just the lighting.

    I don't care for anything that involves touching the surfaces of the coin. No matter how soft a brush is, it can cause hairlines. It's going to move the dirt/junk across the coin. I believe that dirt is going to create hairlines.

    Acetone is a great product but there is a down side. When it removes the junk from the coin, tiny hits and hairlines will show more. When you remove PVC, the surfaces under the PVC may not look any better. The color may not match the rest of the coin.
     
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  4. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Good points. This coin is already multi colored and has problems. Ultimately, I just want to remove the harmful stuff and preserve the coin.
     
  5. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    From your earlier photo, it looks like you're using a plastic tub.

    At the risk of stating the obvious, switch to a glass or metal bowl when you move on to acetone, and be sure to cover it. Acetone evaporates rapidly.
     
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  6. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    That’s the plan, but thank you for pointing it out. I’ve taken the liberty of borrowing my wife’s cookware for the acetone.
     
  7. jerryc39

    jerryc39 Well-Known Member

    I am sure she will love that idea.
     
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  8. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    Like I said, at the risk of stating the obvious . . . but I figure better to state it than not, just in case.
     
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  9. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Well, that’s a way to describe her feelings... probably not the way she would. :p
     
  10. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    So...ignorance is bliss...perhaps I can use artificial toning (or just some strategic gunk) to hide surface imperfections. Please don't get bent out of shape, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate...I understand what you are saying and agree. I have many coins I wish I had not touched!
    If you have a small glass (shot glass, etc.) and a jar with a sealing lid, put the acetone in the shot glass, put the lid of the jar down on a counter, put the shot glass on the lid and screw the jar onto the lid so it is upside down...instant isolation chamber.
     
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  11. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Watch out for those crafty chemistry guys ;)
     
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  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Says the... :)
     
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  13. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    " Put the lime in the coconut and call me in the morning..........."
     
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  14. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    This is brilliant!
     
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  15. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you.
     
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  16. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Update: after over a week of soaking in distilled water, zero noticeable change. After rigging something together, thanks to @Kentucky ’s recommendation. Both containers were thoroughly rinsed with water and acetone prior to the acetone soak.

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  17. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    After a few hours, I was able to run away most of the tape with my finger. Yes, I know that you’re supposed to use something soft and just barely dab (I later wet qtips and rolled them lightly over both coins). But this coin isn’t ever going to be anything than a problem coin. At least it’s a coin that’s not going to deteriorate due to glue/tape on it. The pink areas are a bit more pink. Perhaps some day they’ll retone. I am concerned about the verdigris on the coin. I am hoping the acetone will be enough to remove it, as there isn’t much. No change at all to the cent. Not sure how to help that one, as I’m not really sure what caused the weird darkness (toning or film??). They’re both back in the acetone for an overnight soak.
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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  18. jerryc39

    jerryc39 Well-Known Member

    looks much better without the tape residue. Verdicare will preserve the coin and remove verdigris if acetone doesn't.
     
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    There's something very basic that one needs to understand about verdigris, that being exactly what verdigris is. Simply put, verdigris is what copper turns into as the metal itself corrodes.

    Another way of putting it would be this - verdigris is to copper as rust is to iron and steel. As iron or steel corrodes the metal itself turns into rust - it is no longer metal at all. And as copper corrodes it turns into verdigris - and it is no longer metal at all. It is important to understand this basic concept because it helps one also understand what it takes to remove the verdigris from copper.

    For example, if you took a piece of steel that had some rust on it and put it into some liquid, lets say acetone, would the acetone remove that rust ? It might remove some of it, but only portions of it that are flaky and loosely attached. The rest would stay right there on the steel. In other words it wouldn't really matter what the liquid was, any liquid would do the same thing. The same kind of thing applies to verdigris and copper. If you put copper that has some verdigris on it in acetone, some of the loose and flaky, or powdery, verdigris might come away, but immersing the copper into any liquid would the same thing. In other words it's only coming away because it's loosely attached to the copper. The acetone is having no chemical reaction, it is not dissolving the verdigris.

    The point I'm trying to get across is that trying to remove verdigris with acetone, distilled water, or xylene, is a waste of time as none of those 3 things will dissolve verdigris.

    The one and only thing that will not harm a coin, but will dissolve verdigris and and actually remove it from a coin is Verdi-Care. There is no other chemical or product out there that will dissolve verdigris and not harm the coin.

    It should also be remembered that even the guy who invented and makes Verdi-Care will tell you that it will not always remove ALL of the verdigris. It typically works best when the verdigris is light and not too terribly old. And I'm pointing this out because in some cases, particularly when verdigris has been on a coin for a long, long time and grown thick, it can become quite hard and the Verdi-Care will not remove all of it. Simply put the lighter the verdigris is the better it will work. The older and thicker it is the less likely it will work to remove all of it. It will remove some, but not necessarily all of it.
     
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  20. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    It is my understanding that a coin that uses Verdi care will not straight grade. Not that my coin ever would, but is this true?

    I only ask because I’m under the impression there are at least potentially other ways to remove verdigris, to include soaks in olive oil, that could still get a coin straight graded.
     
  21. jerryc39

    jerryc39 Well-Known Member

    I think verdicare treated coin would be better able to straight grade than an olive oil soaked coin.
     
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