Step 1: Buy uncut sheet of $2 bills. Step 2: Cut sheet "Perfectly" Step 3: Submit to PCGS for supreme grade. Step 4: Sell at Heritage for $92 (http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Inventory_No=800022267) Step 5: If that works, get more sheets to cut up and substitute an asterisk for the letter A in the description (http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Inventory_No=800022268) I though Heritage Auctions was a quality service. I know these are on consignment, but Heritage is still lending their name to them. Am I missing something here?
that .. and everyone makes mistakes. the migger they get, the more likely they to make them, and more of them. even the experts ARE human!
But do you guys agree with PCGS grading a note cut from an Uncut Sheet? It just seems that a note like that should have a notation put on the "slab" or even worse, bodybagged they way they do for adulterated coins. Technically, that final product was not produced by the BEP but rather it was finished in someone's workshop.
i agree it should not have been slabbed as a "normal" note... in as much as it is NOT a normal note. it was not intended for circulation. it was sold to a collector as a sheet. the note most certainly should NOT have been slabbed like that. In the minimum, you are right, a note should have been added that this note came from an uncut sheet. but even then, shoudl the note be slabbed at all considfered it was in fact altered!!! but, like my earlier comment... maybe they didnt notice? and just made a mistake slabbing the note..?? just playinf devils advocate, but we can speuclate all day long, but in the end, the possibility exists they just made a mistake.
But if this is a common mistake, one can easily get perfect notes by cherrypicking uncut sheets. As long as the overprint is perfectly centered and there is already a high probalby that the sheet is clean, one can guarantee a perfect centering of the Obverse EVERY TIME.
If you were REALLY smart ( and real crooked ) you would buy an uncut sheet and with your paper cutter make your self 24 far off center " error" notes for Fleabay and make alot more than $92 I have seen it several times while cruising paper on the bay.....
PCGS lost that "finer establishments" designation with their idiotic "First Strikes" designation of First Spouse coins.
The fraud conviction on that one would be much easier, and yes, I've seen it too. The serial number always gives it away though, but now you can get small sheets with "specialty numbers" which means that collector's will need to pay even closer attention.
There's some historical justification for this, though. Long before TPGs for currency existed, some folks would take old uncut sheets of Fractionals and "sacrifice" some of the notes in order to create a few notes with oversized margins all around. And the resulting notes were generally considered very desirable: the more generous the margins, the better.... 'Course, Fractional Currency was hand-cut anyway and the margins were often irregular, so you could never be *sure* that these oversized notes hadn't been issued that way back in the 1860s. So it's not a perfect parallel to the modern uncut sheets. Still, there's at least some precedent for considering these oversized notes to be Superb Gems rather than worthless alterations. (And in fairness, it probably does take a certain amount of skill and practice to do the cutting right.) Now, with all of that said, I still wouldn't pay any sort of premium for these notes myself. My point is only that PCGS probably knows exactly what these notes are, and feels that they deserve the grades they got--and that there are collectors out there who also know exactly what these notes are, and agree with the grading. There's no "mistake" here, just an odd quirk of the market....
Hoo Boy! I got some strong opinions on this one! First I want you all to know that I respect your opinions cuz most of you have been really good buddies of mine. Disclaimer aside here goes. Daggarjon, Sorry, but there is NO excuse for PCGS to even CONSIDER slabbing these. THESE ARE THE EXPERTS AND TO EXPERTS A SERIAL NUMBER IS CURRENCY 101. If they miss that they did not pass and should no longer be employed by PCGS. SGS might hire them. Why do I feel so strongly about this. Well, Gatzdon nailed it when he titled the thread. Suppose one of us does the same thing and it comes back "body bagged" (as it should). Can we then complain that "it was fine for the other guy". They just opened up a new door to scamming. These notes ARE altered as they did NOT come from the BEP that way. Yes, they are human and we all make mistakes but this one is just a no brainer to someone that is paid big bucks and supposed to be an expert. PCGS should issue an apology and take some lumps. They deserve it. Now Jack, As for the idea of cutting off center. Well it's been done a lot. Fantastic errors! Most sellers include it somewhere in the auction, many times buried in text in fine print. Currency "geeks" complain about and report these listings. Just like coins Jack. Scams are out there and it's another area to clean up. Numbers, I know you know your stuff but sorry I don't agree. You're right though this isn't a mistake it's a TRAVESTY. Heritage auctions I'll be a bit more lenient on but not much. How much does that outfit make in a year? Perhaps they need to hire some people that know specific areas. You know - like a currency guy to do the currency. Don't just read the slab and come up with superlatives. Seems they didn't though as it was consigned and they did make a REAl good point of backing out of any responsibility there. Gatzdon, You, YOU were the one that got me going! Good job I'm afraid.
Since I don't routinely collect bills, I just have a couple of MPC's here is my scenario....... You buy a proof set, silver proof set or a mnit set because you want the half or dollar in it and you send it off to be slabbed.... Now in modern times, proof coins, silver coinage, halves and sacs aren't really minted for circulation....they are a part of collector issues by the roll, bag or set. Is there a difference in breaking a mint or proof set up to slab particular coins out of it and cutting an uncut sheet for slabbing.... Disclaimer: I am referring to straight cuts and not the forementioned offcenter cuts and other miscuts.....
Good point SapperNurse and YES there IS a BIG difference. Sheets are meant to remain as sheets. That's how they are sold. There is not an individual slot for each note as in a proof set. Creating your own "perfect" note with meticulous cutting is fine if that's what you want to do but it does not translate well into the coin realm. Coins aren't serial numberd and don't come in sheets. To me PCGS slabbing this is like breaking open a proof set, having the technology to doctor a coin to make it a PR70DCAM as opposed to a PR67 and then PCGS slabbing it as same, knowing full well it was doctored big time. I know people dip coins and it passes. Hell, it's been pointed out here that PCGS dips coins. So what's next? Send a full sheet in, have PCGS cut it for you then slab it? It needs to stop at some point.
Gotcha Clembo I thought so but I wanted to hear it form someone with experience in the realm rather than listen to my post medication rambling thoughts. Thanks for the education! My day is complete now that I have learned something new
This is probably a better analogy. How would everyone feel if PCGS slabbed a "trimmed" note without indicating that the note was trimmed on the slab?
