OH boy...I just went off on PCGS

I would like to see what they actually say about a coin, before making a call. As it is I think it was fine that arizona jack went off on them, nothing wrong with that. Then again you could get some free opinions here.

 

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I see the thread went poof. PCGS has been censoring issues/concerns like this.

That said, have you been bammed for it?

Just wondering...Mike

 

Be careful, next time you submit a coin to PCGS it might "accidently" get scratched.

 

Link isn't working. Must have Been REALLY bad!

 

I am not banned from the site YET.

 

I could be wrong but what about the stock holders , pcgs is a stock isnt it ,and just by looking at the population of lets say the washington smooth edge pcgs graded 19 thousand while ngc has 35 thousand....if I were a stock holder I would be concerned with this thread and so many like it complaining about pcgs and the pure greed

 

I'm not complaining at all, just stating an opinion.

Last time I checked, opinions were allowed on the site.

If I were a stockholder, I'd sell and buy EXXON Mobil, they complain alot about that too, but it is more profitable and a more in demand product.

 

If I were a stock holder I would have stated my opinion more loudly than Arizona Jack did - mainly that it is evident PCGS cost is getting out of hand with NGC the competitor. The more you raise costs the more that will move to NGC(or others) - who is just as good a grader as PCGS(IMHO). How many did ANACS grade - do they even have a population report? Just curious.

 

I'll simply post these thoughts as a prior CLCT shareholder. The company will collapse within five years. They're pushing this diamond certification thing now and it's just not panning out like they figured. The Baseball market has gone sour and the Autograph certification tentacle is a joke within the "AutoGraph Collecting Community."

Believe me the investors who have the kinda money needed to keep this business viable know there are BIG problems at CLCT. These investors may not be collectors of coins, stamps, autographs, or cards. They simply collect cash and this position isn't generating it. The novelty has worn off.

Here are some interesting links.

http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20060303
http://seekingalpha.com/article/7150-is-collectors-universe-a-fake-clct
http://www.richardsimonsports.com/barrons.htm

Here is something (looks like a new marketing gimmick) which has turned virtually every serious Bust Half Dollar Collector's head. Since when are clash-marks in older CBHs so unusual???

http://cgi.ebay.com/1808-BUST-HALF-..._W0QQitemZ220158477596QQihZ012QQcategoryZ1196

Hang onto your coins and get ready for the RODEO over the next few years.
Ben

 

never mind

 

Ummm - I think we were all saying the same thing - just in different ways. A little less on the caps-lock - hurts my old eyes.

 

The answer to much of this seems fairly simple to me, but then again I wasn't blessed with an overabundance of brains. Still, I'll take a stab at it.

I believe our hobby has matured to the point that TPGs (be they good or bad) will remain with us for some time to come. As others have already pointed out there are many other hobbies - sports cards, stamps, action figures, autographs, etc.- that have had certification services evolve and take an ever increasing role in their respective fields. To me, Numismatically speaking, it seems as if the rise in the popularity of TPGs was rather innocuous at first- if given the benefit of the doubt. A company forms for the purpose of grading coins. The company employees several "experts" in coin grading. The company's mission is to objectively assign an unbiased grade to coins submitted for examination and certification for a fee. Sounds simple and innocent enough.

I began collecting coins in the early 1970s. As a young collector I relied on the experience of my stepfather to educate me in the ways of Numismatics. He was certainly no expert, merely an enthusiast like myself. He did his best to teach me about the coins that interested him- Morgans, Lincoln cents, Mercury dimes, and so forth. I learned a lot, but in no way was my education complete.

I didn't buy my first slabbed coin until 2001. It was an NGC certified 1927 St. Gaudins in MS-65. For me it was a rather substantial investment. I felt better about my purchase being that an unbiased service examined the coin and felt it was genuine and in MS-65 condition. Besides, it was the first purchase I made in the series, and I needed some guidance. Since then I have purchased several coins graded by NGC, PCGS, ANACS, PCI, and ICG. Most of my collection is raw, but I don't always feel comfortable in branching out into a new series without a little help. Certification services, despite their drawbacks, can provide that.

I don't mean to sing the praises of TPGs too loudly, because that is absolutely not my intent. Nevertheless, I will admit that I can see a need for them under certain conditions, as outlined above. However, many of them began to lose credibility with me when things like ASE "First Strike" designations began cropping up. Also, I am put off by the number of proof and uncirculated bullion coins I see popping up with PR/MS-70 grades. Don't even get me started on the whole "certified" roll garbage.

I've been roasted in this forum before for stating that TPGs should be held to the highest standards since they bill themselves as the true professionals of our hobby. Nevertheless, I'll stand by my statement as long as any TPG is allowed to bill itself as the official grading service of the ANA. Do collectors bear some of the responsibility for fostering along the reputations of TPGs? Yes they do, but not all of it.

If TPGs must remain a part of our hobby I'd like to suggest the following:

1) Develop a tamper proof slab that would be reasonably impossible to falsify.

2) Slabs should be accompanied by a paper certificate or hard copy with each coin when it is returned after submission. The certificate would outline why the coin received the grade it was assigned.

3) The certificate would contain a watermark, an official seal, or some other type of authentication that would be very difficult or almost impossible to duplicate or counterfeit, and match it to the slabbed coin.

4) Said service would devote more than a couple of seconds to examining each coin, and it would adhere strictly to a reasonable turn around time for submissions.

5) A guarantee would accompany each submission and would include such things as turn around time, authentication, and grade.

TPGs are in business to make money of course, and perhaps a service that follows the guidelines I've outlined could charge a bit more for their services. No, that wouldn't be to everyone's liking, but it might cut down on the number of state quarters, common Morgans, and special mint products that tend to flood the market.

 

My problem has been lost in translation

Charging an extra $20 for a comment after charging $30 for an opinion is the problem. To me it is like searching a dead mans pockets or charging a restock fee, something low down and worthy of bottom dwellers.

Top Tier TPG's? Good stuff.....

Bilking customers all the while claiming to be a great service?

I have seen crack dealers in Detroit ghettos with more respect for their clientele. It is quite obvious that PCGS has respect for nothing but the almighty dollar.

 

I agree with you totally, especially the restocking fee comment. Tom

 

I'm with you on this Jack. I lost all trust with the TPG's when they introduced the "first strike" scam. This is simply big business and the customer is nothing but a number on a form with money to spend as far as they are concerned.

 

Hmm, I didn't know PCGS was doing that. The thing I personally do not like about PCGS, is exactly what has been voiced quite a few times in this thread, and many others. I totally agree with you Jack. I don't think PCGS cares about "the little guy" or small time collector. Not only do you (unless you find a PCGS dealer) have to join a club and spend a bunch of money to get into the club, but you also have to pay more fees on top of it, just to get a coin submitted. All in all, smaller collectors like myself don't have enough money to submit coins, or if we do, we don't have any at the end. I have no other real probs with any of the TPG's, but this can hurt after awhile IMHO.

Phoenix

 

Yep. That is only one reason of several reasons why I prefer NGC.

Yep.

Yes, ANACS has a population report - open to all, just like NGC... but NOT like PCGS, whose census is available ONLY to paid-up members.

I didn't see a "smooth edge" lisiting in their census report of 2007 dollars, which is here :

http://anacs.com/Reports/ReportView...DenomID=12&Type=140&Date=2007&Variety=&Mint=P

But the numbers for other varieties are MUCH smaller than the 35,000 mentioned for NGC.