Featured Ancient ... but not a coin! Artifacts thread! Post 'em!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Well, it has positive aspects and others that make me hesitate. The patina seems right, but I am concerned primarily by the formation of the characters, how thick they are. Also the designs seem a bit thick as well. I think maybe its something a specialist (not a generalist like myself) needs to see in person.
     
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  3. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Nice seals and ancient weapons. Here are 2 I purchased a few years ago. Pottery I am still debating whether I should pursue, mainly because they are not easy to maintain, and my wife doesn't like such pieces in the display cabin. :(

    z-BronzeSpear.jpg
    Luristan spearhead, with some etching on both sides.

    zStoneSeal.jpg
    Near Eastern stone seal. Need to take a pic of the reverse side some day. It has a design of a human face.
     
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  4. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    That’s what @AnYangMan and I concluded as well.
     
  5. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Roman wedding ring, circa 200 AD. 22-24 karat gold. 8.1 grams, gross weight. Stone inset inscribed with two clasped hands. Damaged in ancient times, as shown. Ring size 4. The damage seems intentional, with the point of a knife or other implement. A sign of divorce or other breakup?
    RomanWeddingRing.jpg
     
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  6. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    Nice artifact & great mystery! You know who else loves a great mystery & loves to solve them?....@lordmarcovan! :smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:
     
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  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The style, the inscription, and a microscopic analysis of the patina and fibers found in the encrustation have proven beyond a resonable doubt that this vessel is a well-made fake. :(
     
  8. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    Very sorry to hear that @TypeCoin971793. Since you bought it at a retail store, I would definitely try taking it back, especially if it’s a shop that’s supposed to specialize in luxury antiques and they sold it as authentic. Still won’t fix the disappointment, but maybe you’ll be able to get the funds to replace it with something else that’s cool and authentic.
     
  9. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The terms were no guarantees of authenticity and all sales are final. I took the risk.
     
  10. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

  11. Numisnewbiest

    Numisnewbiest Well-Known Member

    I was wondering if there is a way to remove the encrustration covering this sling bullet, without ruining the bullet underneath. It's hard as a rock, so I'm afraid to give it the kind of aggressive work it seems like it would need. Also, is there any way to reliably date a bullet like this? It was said to be (if I remember correctly) first century BC.

    DSC01231-tile.jpg
     
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  12. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    Don’t know about the dating, but no, don’t try cleaning it further. That’s the nature of lead, and it’s best just to keep it dry and as is.
     
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  13. Numisnewbiest

    Numisnewbiest Well-Known Member

    I've always wondered at the dating, too, as most of these bullets were so nondescript and common for so long. Can a bullet like this be said to be anything more than maybe the first few centuries AD?
     
  14. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Agreed. Dont clean it, you will only do damage. You can see where it is rather delicate around the edges where it was cast. You could dislodge a lot of material.

    As for dating, there are some issues. The form of these didn't change much and often Greek examples look just Roman. This almond shaped type however is pretty typical of the Republican period. For reference, see M.C. Bishop & J. C. N. Coulston, Roman Military Equipment, From the Punic Wars to the Fall of Rome, figure 27, numbers 1 to 5.
     
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  15. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    Dang, that's sad news all around @TypeCoin971793 , the patina looked pretty good from this side of the screen. Not the typical amateur job as seen on most goofy "ancient" Chinese bronze items. Maybe you could still try to get your money back by threatening to leave scathing reviews all over the internet? From the sounds of it they had it priced as though it were real, not like a 19.99 souvenir.

    @PeteB That ring is great, but is the "stone" made of glass? The marring around the bezel makes me think the ring may have been crushed which shattered the stone, and after discovery the band was probably restored back to shape before you obtained it.

    @Numisnewbiest to get a bit nitpicky the beige material isn't encrustation covering the original surface (like a bloom of rust covering iron artifacts) but actually is the original surface which has been converted to Lead Carbonate and Oxide, in the same way that fine green bronze artifacts or coins have had their surface bronze turn to copper salts. Removal would completely destroy the piece.

    As Ken stated it is very difficult to date and attribute plain bullets without good provenance, but if it's from Iberia then a 1st century BC Roman (or Romano-Iberian) Sertorian War (80-72BC) or Caesar's Civil War origin is likely, with most dealers of Iberian bullets claiming a 45BC "Battle of Munda" association whether actually true or not. Inscribed bullets from both wars can be obtained and are extremely interesting. Your piece looks a lot like a presumed Sertorian War bullet I have but you really can't reliably attribute plain bullets as there was so much overlap across cultures and time.
     
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  16. Numisnewbiest

    Numisnewbiest Well-Known Member

    That's very interesting information - thank you both for that. I'm glad I didn't try to dig into what I was calling "encrustation" then. Since provenance with this bullet is non-existent, I'll consider this a 1st century BC sling bullet and leave it alone.
     
  17. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    That's a pretty good bet. Statistically and just by the numbers its likely 2nd - 1st Century BC Roman. The vast majority of these in collections and on the market are from Spain, having been exported before the state tightened up their antiquities laws. Lots of people like to mention Munde (and I do as well in my descriptions but with the honesty added in), but the site has never been found.
     
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  18. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I thought about doing that, but I do like the vessel, fake or not. I willingly took the risk since “all sales final” was a part of the terms.

    It wasn’t $19.99, but it was not priced at all near a genuine piece.
     
  19. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    When receiving this oil lamp, I felt it's the oldest among all those I already own. There are also 3 holes instead of regularly 3. Wear and mud, beside possible repair. What do I know about all this ? Nevertheless, it's genuine and undoubtedly Judean.
    Here's a quick clear scan as a start. Please post your comment, if you have. Thanks..

    LamChand 001.jpg
     
  20. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Edited: I should have typed " 3 holes instead of regularly 2 " 2 and not 3.
     
  21. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Here are better photos. Hope we can estimate the age. LrPrflt 3.JPG LrMouth 4.JPG
     
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