Any "tells" for dateless SLQs?

Hi all

Aside from the 1916 no stars, are there any tells for dateless SLQs? I found 3 "s" mint and would love to identify.. I assume there is no nick-a-date or whatever either?

Thanks!

 

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Do you have a red book?

 

I do (2017) but it’s packed away at the moment

 

I think there is no chance to make the date visible in this case.

 

We've gone back and forth over the years about whether there was ever a product that would successfully restore dates on silver. Some people claim that there was, back in the 60s, but it's no longer available.

My take is that it's not possible. I support that with two arguments, one from metallurgy, and one from observation.

From metallurgy: the reason etching restores dates on nickels is that the copper-nickel alloy undergoes work hardening as it is extruded into the recesses of a die, and it's that hardening that makes the date "foundation" etch more slowly than the surrounding surface. Coin silver is more malleable, doesn't work harden to the same extent, and doesn't display differential etching as a result. Gold wouldn't be expected to, either.

From observation: restored-date key Buffalo nickels don't bring nearly as much money as original examples, but they bring a lot more money than a dateless coin. Since there's a market, it's very easy to find restored-date Buffalos. Dateless SLQs are plentiful and cheap. If it were possible to bring back the date on a 1921 or 1918/7-S quarter, people would be restoring quarters left and right to find them, and we'd be seeing the results at auctions and/or in Details slabs. We don't, because they can't, because it isn't.

But if anyone can show me before-and-after shots of the same coin, dateless and with the date restored, and do it repeatedly, I'll be really really happy to change my mind. And dig out those rolls of dateless SLQs that I've accumulated.

 

You've already mentioned "no stars", which is the foolproof way to spot even the most worn Type 1 quarters (1916 and early 1917). It also sounds like you're aware of the markers to distinguish dateless 1916 coins from 1917 Type 1 examples.

Type 2 (late 1917 through 1924) still have the date on a raised pedestal, and are often found dateless. I've seen a list of pickups for the 1918/7-S overdate, but by the time a coin is worn enough to lose its date, the pickups are a bit tricky as well.

http://standinglibertyquarter.org/19187-s-standing-liberty-quarter-8-over-7/

https://coins.ha.com/itm/standing-liberty-quarters/1918-7-s-25c-ms65-pcgs-cac-fs-101/a/1154-5134.s

I haven't seen a list of pickups for other dates, but I haven't looked very hard. If you come across any, please post them here; I'd love to see them.

 

I’ve seen hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, and nic-a-date work in bringing back details on worn silver coins

 

Do you mean used individually, or mixed together?

 

Nic-a-date was by itself. I think the hydrogen peroxide was mixed with the vinegar

 

I haven't, and haven't seen the product of a successful treatment.

I also can't envision a mechanism for peroxide and acetic acid to attack silver. That doesn't mean that there isn't one, just that it isn't apparent to my half-(donkey) intuition.

Now, for THIS one, I'm pretty confident in saying that the date detail must have already been there, and just brought out by staining or something. Ferric chloride plus silver yields... ferric chloride plus silver. Ferric nitrate might get you somewhere, but that's not what's in Nic-a-date.

And, again, where are all the date-restored quarters? And three-cent silvers, and early Walkers, and, and, and...

 

https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=264539

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/found-a-way-to-get-dates-off-standing-liberty-quarters.295276/

 

If you want to collect them for yourself, it may be worth the effort. If you think you can make money selling them, that's probably not a viable option.

 

Those "before" pictures are entirely worthless. Maybe the guy did what he said, but I'm not a bit convinced by his photos. For one thing, there's no way that the "O" mintmark on that Barber quarter wasn't visible before he started. In my opinion, of course.

I said my piece in that thread already.

However, having said this, I guess I owe it to the quoted posters to try it myself. I've certainly got vinegar and peroxide on hand, and I should have a big old bottle of ferric chloride solution from my electronics days (although I may have dumped it while preparing for a move sometime in the 1980s). If I can't find it, maybe I can improvise.

 

Let’s see what happens

 

Is that vinegar and peroxide? I'm curious whether you'll see any staining on the "stainless" steel under the coin. Iron, and most of the other stuff in stainless steel, is more active than silver.

Also, I could almost convince myself I see some features in the date area in your "before" photo above...?

 

Please tag me if you try it. I’ve got a couple dozen dateless ones Latin around somewhere.

 

I didn't know 1916 came with an S mint mark.