Featured The Slabbed (NGC/PCGS) AT-QT (Artificial/Questionable Toning) Thread

I have also heard/read that they are AT, but have not seen enough to make a definitive judgement.

So back to this 1928, you don't believe a leather pouch could cause that color?

 

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Malpractice? There are lots of "special" people in this hobby.

 

I said MA, but in reply to your question, I believe @Mainebill did pay a premium for the coin (please correct me if that is not true Mainebill). Plus, with Peace Dollars I've seen neutral toning draw premiums. I'd suspect this 1928 would sell for more than a generic MS 64 example and thus the doctor would be rewarded (again I'm not saying it was doctored).

 

No. I don't think tannins produce bright yellow colors.

 

So guys who are deliberately toning coins for profit are too stupid to know when they have failed? That’s not believable. If this was a common date I could be convinced that it is a test piece that is worth the time and energy to fix, but alas, it is a 1928.

 

I hate to sound like David Hall, but I have never seen a naturally toned Peace Dollar like that yet and the bright yellow color and pattern strike me as incredibly suspect. This coin brings out a good point of fundamental difference between graders that continues to this day. Some believe a coin should be slabbed unless it fits known AT patterns. Others believe that a coin should only be slabbed if it fits known NT patterns. I fall in the second category. I don't believe in giving a coin the benefit of the doubt. Borderline coins should receive a QC label.

 

None of the edgedynamicmarketing guy's stuff looks close to legit to me, but there are people throwing fistfuls of money for it. You don't have to be an expert to be successful, just "good enough." There are a ton of YN on Instagram who have purchased a lot of AT in slabbed holders that don't even know what NT looks like anymore!

 

I collected toned Peace Dollars at one time and in my experience, monochromatic yellow and gold toned coins did not drive significant price premiums. And why would he pay a premium for a coin he thinks is AT?

 

Fair enough, but Mainebill is not an idiot.

 

I found it from the toning premium thread. The final price was $1,145. And he paid a premium because he loved the look. It seems that some people aren't posting coins that they think are AT, just items that they may not be sure about.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-toning-premium-thread-part-2.299570/page-183#post-2991083

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-toning-premium-thread-part-2.299570/page-184

 

I have too; however, I have also seen people pay premiums for truly ugly toned Peace Dollars because of some faux perception of rarity. Neutral coins too. I don't know why Bill would pay a premium for a coin he thinks is AT.

I consider the color neutral eye appeal wise on the 1928.

 

@Mainebill - Have you ever sent the coin to CAC?

Edited: Never mind, it looks like it stickered in the other thread!

I wish I could see this one in hand.

 

I have definitely seen people pay crazy amounts for what I thought were mediocre Peace Dollars. Take that one I posted earlier in this thread that went for over $4k.

 

See my links above. It got the CAC bean (green).

 

The coin was blatant AT. If I recall correctly, it took more than one submission to get it straight graded too.

 

We interrupt the conversation for a quick
Summary of results:
-----------------------

Coin 1 - Clad Dime (pg.1) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 2 - Franklin (pg. 1) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 3 - CBH (pg. 4) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 4 - Silv PR Ike (pg. 5) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 5 - Peace Dollar (pg. 7) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 6 - Ohio Silv PR 25c (pg. 8) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 11 (AT/QC)
Coin 7 - 1964 MS 25c (pg. 9) - 11 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 8 - 1974 Clad PR 25c (pg. 11) - 4 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 9 - 85-O Morgan (pg. 12) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC) *no points*
Coin 10 - 1890 IHC (pg. 13) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 3 (AT/QC)
Coin 11 - 1893 Col. Commem (pg. 14) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 12 - Silver 3c (pg. 15) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 13 - SBA (pg. 16) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 14 - Large Cent (pg. 16) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 15 - Franklin (pg. 17) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 14 (AT/QC)
Coin 16 - 1964 10c (pg. 18) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 10 (AT/QC)
Coin 17 - 1966 1c SMS 67*(pg. 19) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 18 - Silve 25c (pg. 19) - 10(NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 19 - Peace Dollar (pg. 20) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 10 (AT/QC)
Coin 20 - 1945 1c (pg. 21) - 14 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 21 - 1964 50c (pg. 22) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 22 - Peace $1 (pg. 23) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 3 (AT/QC)
Coin 23 - Franklin (pg. 24) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 24 - Jefferson 5c (pg. 24) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 25 - Peace $1 (pg. 25) - 8 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 26 - 1947 10c (pg. 26) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 27 - 1940 Walker (pg. 27) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 28 - 1970-S Cent (pg. 28) - 11 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 29 - Roanoke Commem (pg. 29) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 30 - Peace Dollar (pg. 30) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 31 - Peace Dollar (pg. 30) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC)
Coin 32 - Long Island Commem (pg. 31) - 8 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 33 - New Rochelle Commem (pg. 32) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 34 - 1964 Kennedy (pg. 32) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 35 - Proof Franklin (pg. 32) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 36 - Wheat Cent (pg. 34) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 37 - Wheat Cent (pg. 35) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 38 - Franklin (pg. 36) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 12 (AT/QC)
Coin 39 - Franklin (pg. 37) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 40 - Mercury (pg. 38) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC)
Coin 41 - Silver Washington 25c (pg. 39) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 42 - Clad Ike (pg. 39) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 43 - Silver Kennedy (pg. 39) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 44 - MPL Cent (pg. 40) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 45 - Peace Dollar (pg. 42) - 4 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 46 - 1996 Nickel (pg. 43) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 8 (AT/QC)
Coin 47 - 1928 Peace Dollar (pg. 44) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
-----------------------

NT/MA: 28 total
AT/QC: 19 total

-----------------------
Points:

ddddd - 13
Lehigh96 - 2
TheFinn - 1
BlackberryPie - 1
EyeAppealingCoins - 1
Mainebill - 1

 

When did Mainebill buy that coin. CDN was $1K just two years ago so his buy price would simply reflect a retail price if purchased in that time period.

 

Even if he paid retail, it still suggests that a supposed doctor was successful (if it was AT). The coin didn’t sell for a discount. Many would struggle to sell a neutral example for retail and would be happy with the result.

Plus we would need to find out what this would sell for now. If the coin still brought $1.1k or more, then that would represent a premium priced based on today’s market.

 

Ok we really got everyone going on this one. Personally I feel it natural and had some kind of unusual storage. I bought it in the holder in early 2014. I thought it a nice example for my type set as I seldom see peace dollars with decent color. And I thought it was a very solid 64. No better than 64 but an accurate grade. And it’s a 28. Not a generic date. Did I pay a premium. Not much. People I’ve showed it to have either loved it or hated it. I sent it to cac and it came back green. I didn’t know what JA would think but that secondnded my opinion of it being legit. Was one of my pickups from the old weekly StacksBowers I auctions. I miss them so much. I used to find some great coins for good prices. Especially toners. They weren’t paying the premium for them there that they were at heritage where even crappy generic Morgan’s with unexceptional toning brought a strong premium. In hand it’s every bit as bright and maybe brighter. So I thought I’d put this out there to see what the opinions were

 

Floor is open...