I have a question?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Poolplayer2, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    I am out and about at the moment I will check it out later. I like your thinking, cite the source's source!
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's the book I was referring to, never had a copy myself. And I have to admit I was unaware that they doubled the tolerance for silver quarters, even more than doubled it for halves, in '47. The numbers I was using were obviously from before '47.

    As for where the numbers come from, I believe they are defined by the laws that authorized the coins.
     
  4. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Yep GDJMSP you are correct. The almanac is proving to be a great resource. There is a chapter called Numismstics and the Law and the specific section of the United States code that covers this topic is 31 U.S.C. Section 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins. Of course it lists the current specifications such as weight and size and composition.

    *the following provided for educational purposes only*

    PhotoEditor_20190127_174615984.jpg
     
  5. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yes, I'd found that section of the Code, but note that it does not address weight tolerance for any of the coins. (Oddly, it does address the tolerance of the composition for the five-cent piece, saying the proportion of nickel can vary by no more than 2.5 percent.

    Tolerances must be officially specified somewhere. But where?
     
  6. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Section 5113 states that the Secretary of the Treasury may prescribe tolerance for the manufacture of dollars half quarters and dimes and then goes on to speficy the tolerance for nickel so it is left up to the Treasury department to set the tolerances as allowed by law.
     
  7. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yep. And those must be stated somewhere. But so far, the only citations I can find are to... Coin World Almanac. :rolleyes:

    Hey, if we got Coin World Almanac to run a typo stating that the tolerance on dimes is -0.091 g, +9.091 g, I wonder how long it would take for the giant dimes to start showing up in circulation? :troll:
     
  8. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Never
     
  9. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Depending on how the cladding is applied. It's not uncommon for a planchet strip to be rolled thin or thick, a small mechanical error and you have a problem. This could easily create a weight variance that was hard to get specific.
     
  10. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    The only references I can find just go back to the law itself, section 5113. You are correct there must be a publication of the perscribed tolerances set by the Treasury Department somewhere, but it is beyond my limited googling research capabilities.
     
  11. bsting

    bsting Never enough coins.lol

    Thin planchet?? If you lay the coins side by side does one look thinner? If it’s a half a gram off tollerance it may be hard to tell. Pics are always good.
     
  12. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Actually 5.443 to 5.897 grams would be the range. So 5.22 grams would be below weight by approx. 4.17% assuming not a bi-centennial quarter. Agree that pictures are necessary to address the OP's question.
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's because they took the trouble to dig them up. To my knowledge, it is the only readily available publication that list the tolerances. As to where they got them, their source, from the US Treasury. For example, from the Coinage Act 1965 see - Section 108 (5)

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-79/pdf/STATUTE-79-Pg254.pdf

    (5) A specification given otherwise than as a limit shall be maintained within such reasonable manufacturing tolerances as the Secretary may specify.

    Now I don't have a link to the exact specifications from the Treasury, but that tells ya where they come from.
     
    Razz likes this.
  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Or at least we think they did. If they don't cite their sources, we can't check it ourselves.

    We can trust that they didn't get some of the numbers wrong, or make them all up from whole cloth. In fact, we almost certainly should. But it bugs me that I can't check them myself. (But, no, not enough for me to get on the phone with the Treasury myself. Yet.)
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Or you can simply buy the book and see for yourself if they do cite their source :)
     
    Razz likes this.
  16. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    I have it. Got it for $10 at a local bookstore called Bookmans. Just doesn't appear to be any citations in the table for the Treasury Department specified tolerances. Just a reference to the US code.
     
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And what exactly is that reference ? Do they cite section and paragraph ?
     
  18. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Yes. See my post above of page 48 for 31 USC Section 5112. Then on page 59, Section 5113 is provided in which exact tolerances for nickels and cents are listed (0.194 gram and 0.13 gram, respectively) in the law, and the statement that the Secretary of the Treasury "may prescribe reasonable manufacturing tolerances ....for the dollar, half dollar, quarter dollar, and dime coins."

    *provided for educational purposes only*

    PhotoEditor_20190129_071222849.jpg
     
  19. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    The US Coins specifications table has no literature cited section as well as the whole book does not have much in the way of citing sources. But the chapter on the law has the US code as written in 2011....
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Razz the law itself is easily accessed by anybody on any of the US Code sites. What I was wondering, and I believe what Jeff is asking about, is if there someplace in the book where they cite the source specifically for the tolerance levels they list. And I suspect that IF it is listed anywhere in the book it's either in the Forward or perhaps an index of the book.

    edit - I just had an idea, I'm gonna send an email to Bill Gibbs and simply ask him what the source was for the tolerance levels.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
    -jeffB likes this.
  21. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Not that I can find just the legal authority but not the source of the tolerance limits. Interestingly enough looks like my copy was signed by Beth Deisher!:happy:

    PhotoEditor_20190129_091352200.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page