Who is this??? Gordian I or II?

These three coins have been sold by three well known auction companies as Sestertii of Gordian II. One of them is also the Wildwinds plate coin for this type.

I suspect that at least two of them show Gordian I instead. If I am right, there must be many misidentified coins of these around. Let me know what you think...

1)

2)

3)

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Two of these appear to be Gordian II (to my relatively untrained eye) but I may be wrong.

 

My understanding is 1 is bald and the other has hair.

 

I have a theory that most (if not all) specimens of this type for Gordian II (RIC 7 / C 13 / BMCRE 29 / Banti 6) come from one single obverse die (these three here also share the same reverse die):




I don´t really see the same man on the OP coins.

 

Both father and son used the same legends.They can only be differentiated by the style of the portrait.Observe the hairline features. Gordian I is shown bald forward of the top of his laurel wreath while the younger Gordian retains a full head of hair.

 

I feel the 3 coins represent one single Emperor.

 

Gordian I has more hair than Gordian II, Gordian II has a major receding hairline..

 

As far as I have read, only Gordian III used legends including PIVS or PIVS FEL. The two elder Gordians (I and II) always used a legend including AFR (Africanus); the three coins in the OP are either Gordian I or Gordian II, I think all three are Gordian II

 

That is what people thought in the 19th century. Now it is the general consensus that it is Gordian II who is thinning on top.

There is often not much hair left on well worn Sestertii on of either Gordian, so it is not the hairstyle that is best used to distinguish the junior from the senior (if you look closely, the guy on Nr.3 does actually have hair where it is not supposed to be!).

The safest way to tell the son from the father on worn bronzes in my opinion ist that Gordian II usually shows a projecting lower jaw and lip, while Gordian I keeps his lips tight.

Here are three more Sestertii of the type - they are all again from the same obverse die that show the younger Gordian´s typical features:





In my eyes the fact that all other Sestertii of this type of Gordian II seem to originate from one single obverse die makes it less likely that the OP coins can be genuine Gordian II´s.

 

I just found these two Sestertii. Both were sold as Gordian I but they very closely resemble the portraits seen on OP coins 2 and 3 respectively that were sold as Gordian II. If they come from the same dies, they can´t represent different emperors

 

I have nothing to add but I’m watching with interest, as I have coins of both Gordians and I’m keen to know if they need reattributing.

How could anyone know for certain which Gordian has the receding hairline? Are there contemporary accounts of their appearances? If not, isn’t this all just a guess?

 

Maybe here’s a clue :

 

But are we sure that is really Gordian I?

 

According to wikipedia............yes
Musei capitonili

 

Interesting. From what I remember from Gibbons decline and fall the dad, Gordian I was considered a very old man of 79. Hence everyone's reservation for "electing" him...
And I've got more wrinkles on my brow at 37 than that bust.

 

Usually the accepted distinction is that Gordian II is balding and Gordian I is not (I remember it as the opposite of what might be expected since Gordian I was older and might be expected to be balder, but he was not). That makes the OP #3 Gordian I because his forehead hairline is clear. The #1 has surface concerns that makes it hard to tell if it originally had a hairline at the forehead or not, but I think not. #1 and #2 seem to show the balding of Gordian II.

About that bust of "Gordian I" in the museum. Most marble busts are identified by their resemblance to coin portraits, not the other way around. It is unlikely that bust was found labeled as to who it was. Those who know the coins help museum people identify their busts. The bust of "Gordian I" shows the expected lack of balding, which is almost certainly why it was assigned to Gordian I as opposed to Gordian II.

 

No, we are not. There are no undisputed statues or busts of either of the Gordiani Africani left (same for Herennius Etruscus, Hostilian, Carus and Numerian) but that does not keep people from attributing certain old marble heads to them on the internet .
By the way this guy looks more like Claudius Cothicus to me...

It is thought that the celators did not have a recent bust (or painting) of Gordian I at hand when they had to prepare dies for the absent Emperor in a matter of days (or hours), so they had to with whatever his daughter could find at the family villa, which may have been a decades old portrait, or just had to make up something from hearsay.
Gordian IIs portraits, on the other hand, are highly individual and therefore must be created after a realistic (and recent) source.

I have the same "problem" as you. My second Gordian is still in the mail/customs and I´m trying to shorten the waiting time with research .
Who would want to have two rather costly coins of the same guy - no matter who is who?

My new coin used to be attributed to Gordian I in this 1913 catalogue:




This coin is from the same obverse die as the six coins in my second and third posts above (the only obverse die regularly used for Victoria Sestertii of Gordian II) and therefore must be Gordian II (or the bald Gordian that is seen as Gordian II nowadays). Accordingly, it was described as Gordian II by my seller.

These seven coins are the only published specimens of this type (RIC 7 / C 13 / BMCRE 29 / Banti 6) apart from a specimen in Paris (mentioned by Cohen) and the three OP coins.

The three OP coins all have problems: Nr.1 has surface concerns, Nr.2 and Nr.3 come from dies that are also attributed to Gordian I (see my last post), Nr.3 shows a hairline, and they do not come from the same die as the other 7 specimens.

 

Sharing my Gordian I and II, respectively... but let me know if there’s doubt about who is GI and who is GII

 

Neat Gordiani, Greg!

Your Sestertius is certainly G I, as can be seen on this double die matching coin that has all details:

It also shares it´s reverse die with the plate coin in Alberto Banti´s I Grandi Bronzi Imperiali, Vol. IV-2. Banti recorded 31 published specimens of this type (Banti 5, RIC 9, Cohen 6, BMCRE 5) in 1987.

There can be no doubt about your Denarius either

 

A few sources on the web confirm Gordian II had less hair than Gordian I, though it's hard to determine the origin of this opinion

https://www.romancoinshop.com/en/gordian-ii-reigned-only-for-22-days/