Small head, unbroken legend

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Valentinian, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Here is a Licinius II (317-324)with a small head and unbroken obverse legend. It is the first issue for him when he became Caesar in 317 under his father. The coin is a bit hard to image because it is a glossy black.

    LiciniusIIcampgateO50.jpeg LiciniusIIcampgateR50.jpeg
    An AE3. 19 mm. 2.79 grams.
    RIC VII Heraclea 19, with mintmark MHTΔ
    (HT for "Heraclea Thracia" in Thrace)
    Reverse: Camp gate. PROVIDEN-TIA CAESS (two Ss for two Caesars, including Crispus)
    The small head allows room for the long obverse legend:
    DN VAL LICIN LICINIVS NOB C (VAL for "Valerius")
    Large heads may fill the flan so close to the top that the legend must be "broken" (and shorter). Under the Valentinian and Theodosian dynasties it was common and purposeful that the senior emperor(s) had broken legends and the junior members had "unbroken" legends with smaller heads.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2015
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I'll bet the color is beautiful. Very nice coin. Here is a similar coin which I need desperately to re-image

    Licinius II 4.jpg
    LICINIUS II
    AE3
    OBVERSE: D N VAL LICIN LICINIVS NOB C, laurate draped bust left, holding globe, sceptre & mappa
    REVERSE: PROVIDENTIAE CAESS, campgate with three turrets & no doors, 6 layers, dot over dot in right field, SMHD in ex.
    Struck at Heraclea, 317-320 AD
    3.3g, 19mm
    RIC VII 36
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    There seems to be quite a few of this Heraclea issue available in good shape but I also am keeping a worn Constantius II just because the portrait is considerably smaller than the normal. Does anyone have the Licinius II with dot following mintmark? I wonder if it is also super small,
    rx4490bb1557.jpg rx5880bb0917.jpg rx5881bb2212.jpg
     
  5. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I've seen these types a few times. Wonderful coins posted though.
     
  6. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Thanks to all for the photos. I have never seen this type before.
     
  7. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I look for interesting engraving styles in LRB's, and it seems to me that most of these small busts look like adult shrunken heads, which is certainly interesting. But I found this one that had more boyish features...

    licinius ii campgate.jpg
     
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  8. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Nice find! I'd like to grab one myself.
     
  9. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Hmmm ... apparently Licinius-II must have taken after his mother?

    Licinius-I had a huge head!!


    Licinius I.jpg
     
  10. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    I thought about starting a new thread about the amazing small head coinage, but found this one very interesting. So the head was made small for the engraver to be able to include a long text on the rim of the coin? A larger head and less vertical body would have done that, too.

    Was Licinius II the only imperial with this type of a shrunken head? Licinius's caesarial colleague Crispus didn't have any such types, I believe.

    2695 Licinius ii ct.jpg
    Licinius II, caesar (317-324). Follis, Cyzicus. Obv. 317-320 AD. Small laureate, draped half-length bust left, holding mappa, globe and sceptre. D N VAL LICIN LICINIVS NOB C. Rev. Jupiter standing left, holding Victory and sceptre, wreath to left, Γ to right. IOVI CONSERVATORI CAESS. Mintmark SMK. 18.5 mm, 3.00 gr. Reddish copper.
     
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Licinius II and Constantine II were both quite young when these were issued. I always wondered if the official propaganda of the day played down that point since they were being promoted as hope for the future. Crispus was a lot older and already a person of potential. He deserved a bigger portrait. I do wish we knew the thought process or politics that led to the size differences on these coins.
     
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  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Here's a Licinius II with a more conventionally-sized portrait for comparison. Also from the "looks better in hand" category!

    Licinius II IOVI CONSERVATORI CAESS follis Antioch.jpg
     
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  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I think mine is more of a Medium Head variety, but with unbrocken legend. I looked and have none of the Pinhead variety...

    Mine really looks like a Medieval Monk thumpin a bible...

    upload_2019-1-8_9-20-41.png
    RI Licinius II 317-324 CE Folles Jupiter w Eagle sinister left Antioch
     
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  14. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Ours are pretty much the same issue, huh?
     
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  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    It was always a "different" style coin to me. The eye glaring, mine with a very round head... always struck me as a weird bust.
     
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  16. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Here is a first-issue coin of Constantine II with a small, but not tiny, head:

    Constantine2PRINCIPIIVVENTVTIS.jpg
    20 mm. Struck 317 at Trier.
    FL CL CONSTANTINVS IVN NC
    PRINCIPI IVVENTVTIS
    BTR in exergue
    RIC VII Trier 144B.
     
  17. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Lovely coins! My only Licinius II for the time being is a helmeted type. Sadly, no image just yet (I'm working on getting caught up!)

    I knew he was young, but it wasn't until I read up on him that I realized just how young - these first coins were issued when he wasn't even 2 years old!
     
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