1965 NGC quarter

I think the coin is a MeowS 66 or even a PurR 67. Ain't that right Meow ?

 

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Heyyy , I thought Kasia and Meow were the same kitty, just using different aliases.

Now I realize that they're twins, with one just dressing with more panache.

 

The '65 is an SMS coin, so it should be graded differently - these things weren't shot out into hoppers.

 

It is not an SMS coin.

 

66

 

Hey, You cant go wrong with an Orange Cat!

 

I think that Meow's coin graded MS-64. That said, I think it should have graded MS-65, but I am not as knowledgeable about 1965 Quarters as I am about 1983-Ps and am likely overgrading her coin.

That brings me to an important point of which virtually nobody seems to be aware. You don't grade a 1983-P the same way a you grade a 1965.

In fact, you don't grade a 1965 the same way as you do a 1966. You grade each coin against other coins of the same date and mintmark. You do not grade coins across a series, nor do you compare grades in coins across a series. Grading just doesn't work that way.

 

This is about the size of it.

I never had much luck finding a non-SMS 1965 as nice as this one but a lot of other people did. This '65 doesn't seem to have the SMS look but some of the SMS coins are mistaken for regular issues which affects the value and the reward for getting it in the proper holder.

I'd say MS-65 is too low but trying to fix it might get it designated SMS-66.

 

This has the look of an SMS quarter to me, though I’m not much of a modern collector. Are there any known diagnostics that can be checked to see one way or the other? I’m quite certain that SMS coins are in non-SMS holders and vice versa.

 

I think it went 66. Although all the heavy die polish lines on the surfaces make me think that it could be an SMS. Like some have said above.

 

Meow reminds me of Jimmy on a Seinfeld episode.

 

the following refers to 1964 sets but would the process be the same for 1965-67?

"Some of the most beautiful coins in numismatics today are also some of the most intriguing. A simple look at any of the breathtaking 1964 SMS coins reveals their special numismatic status. The special finish of 1964 SMS coins is characterized by a nice, smooth, satin-like appearance. The fields are usually well struck, very clean and tend to come without any major nicks or scratches. The edges for most 1964 SMS coins also tend to be square and sharp. The bust and legends are usually highly detailed and sharp on most examples, especially when compared to business strike coins. The surfaces are non-reflective compared to proof coins of the era, yet are not the same finish as regular-issue coins for the same year."

For 65-67 there is this blurb "From 1965 - 1967 the U.S. Mint produced Special Mint Sets to prevent the public from hoarding coins. The mint produced these coins with special care giving them a nicer finish than circulation strike coins. The coins were also only sold to the public in special packaging. Therefore, the Special Mint Set coins tend to come in nicer condition that circulation strike coins."

Both found on PCGS site

 

MS-66

 

Very well said! I am on the fence at 64/65 on this kitties quarter due to the skuff on the neck and to my inexperienced eye it looks like I could easily confuse it as being SMS.

I really enjoy these grading posts with all the educational information!

 

Meow did not know that they had different criteria for grading of coins, even if they are from the same series. That seems so inconsistent, and would make it difficult for the average consumer (or Cat) to follow.

 

That was unfortunate. Maybe introducing Lily Bug to CRH, will curb the urge to hunt for food indoors.

 

The coin that illustrates this best is the 1922 No D Lincoln Cent where the obverse die was so worn and so ground down that the Mint Mark was completely missing. The obverse die was paired with a brand-new reverse die and created a rare error coin. The 1922 No D is graded mostly by it's reverse, as it is often nearly impossible on a worn coin to determine wear from worn die on the obverse.

 

It somewhat makes it difficult for a regular person to grade a variety of coins at the MS levels. For most, learning to grade up to MS 60 Is a bit easier in it's own way. Expertise in any subject has it's own learning curves. In some ways this is why people who collect MS70 vs MS68 or 69 are being silly (in a way) because the differences in a MS68 or 69 or 70 are very little. All must have full luster and all must be perfect, really:

"
MS70: No imperfectons under high magnification. A perfect coin.

MS69: Any imperfection, hairlines, etc, are virtually undetectable under magnification. Finding business strike U.S. coins graded this high is rare.

MS68: An very prominent, well defined strike. Full mint luster. Outstanding eye appeal. No visible marks of any nature are present on the coins primary surfaces under average magnification power. A coin with outstanding surface quality."

Also, different coins are given laxer standards at times, based sometimes on rarity.

 

No, there are no "certain" characteristics for determining SMS/ non-SMS. The problem is made more complex by the fact that they used many different processes for making the dies and SMS coins and by the fact that retired SMS dies were used to strike business strikes in San Francisco. There is a "look" that SMS's have and with this look it's a safe bet that they are SMS. There are also characteristics that no SMS have that assure it's a business strike but almost any very high grade business strike can be mistaken for SMS.

This '65 is high enough grade to be mistaken even though it has the business strike appearance.

An experienced collector can tell them apart with uncanny accuracy even from photos usually, but high grade business strikes can be very deceiving. Sometimes I can get tripped upon worn die SMS's but these are a little uncommon as no die went beyond about 40,000 strikes. It's more an art than a science but I think the biggest telltale characteristic is just strike pressure. SMS's were struck under higher tonnage. Luster also is a little different on most SMS.