Nazi Germany or Native American symbol countermark?

This is also true. There is some good age in the punch and drilled hole but ya, who knows.

 

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Then as I say, it was a good day.

 

Amen, LakeEffect, nor where it was done.

All we really know is what we can see and what the OP tells us.

The OP tells us very little about where he got the coin. What about it , Tyler. Do you want to expound on the source of the coin?

What I see is a Great Britain 1939 Penny with 3 countermarks on it :
1) A Swastika ( or Sauwastika )
2) An Arrow
3) A Thunderbird

The first 2 are on the reverse. The 3rd is on the obverse.

Upon further examination, we see that each item has been punched a minimum of 3 times.

Now, those observances are facts. We can see them for ourselves.

Anything beyond that would be conjecture, however, conjecture is very much welcome here. Why? Conjecture leads to investigation. Investigation leads to discovery. Discovery leads to facts. Facts are what we want.

A first conjecture might concern the Boy Scouts of America Order of the Arrow.
A question might be Are there BSA groups in Great Britain? or Has there ever been a Boy Scout Jamboree ever held in Great Britain?

Here's an interesting link :Order_of_the_Arrow

(Thanks to YoloBagels )

 

I wish I could other than "eBay"

 

It's well known the swastika was an important symbol in the Hindu and Buddhist religions and Native American culture.

In all examples I can find, the aforementioned used the swastika in a square orientation (sides facing up, down, left and right, similar to the OP's coin).

German Nazis used it in a diamond orientation (rotated 45 degrees so that corners point up, down, left and right).

Given that, I'm inclined to rule out a Nazi connection. And given the presence of the arrow and thunderbird imprints, I'm inclined to believe they're Native American inspired.

As others have noted, the coin's date is potentially misleading. I have a bunch of British pennies from that era, but I didn't acquire any of them in 1939. These marks could have been added at any time in the past 79 years.

All in all, a very interesting find.

 

Very good reasoning , Max!

After further research concerning the BSA and the symbols on this coin, I have found some connections : The Order of the Arrow uses an arrow in it's symbolism but not either a Swastika or a Thunderbird, and Lord Baden Powell, the founder of the BSA, was born in England.

However, here's more research concerning the Scouts. and these symbols.
swastikas.shtml

 

http://www.winsociety.org/newsletter/vol-7/swastika.html

 

More research concerning Native American symbols, including all three on the coin.
symbol-meanings

 

I read your link, and I like it.
You know, I'm leaning toward the idea that this coin was acquired by a Native American Boy Scout while at Jamboree in England, who then brought it home to the U.S. and marked it with both Scout and Native American symbols.

I know this idea may seem a stretch, but really, it seems to fit this coin and it's markings.

 

Here's a Jamboree held in England. There were also others.9th_World_Scout_Jamboree

 

I’m not certain they were incorporated into scouts then, but I have no research to say one way or the other. I do not believe this to be a nazi sympathizer, simply because of the other symbols included there, as well as the fact that I do not believe the symbol at this part had the negative stigma attached to it. I think someone had an array of punches and used ones that interested them. I believe this was considered good luck and perhaps that there was connection to native Americans.

 

Boy Scouts movement begins. On January 24, 1908, the Boy Scouts movement begins in England with the publication of the first installment of Robert Baden-Powell's Scouting for Boys. The name Baden-Powell was already well known to many English boys, and thousands of them eagerly bought up the handbook.



That's how it all began.

 

To be clear, the left-facing Buddhist Swastika is NOT the same as the right-facing (and 45° tilted) Nazi Hakenkreuz.

 

... and 1945 marked the end.


This coin came from my Grandmother's collection. I'm certain she found it as-is... no way she would've deface a coin.

 

So to add more mystery - I read that the scouts stopped using the symbol in 1935 - so even if this was stamped in 1939 that is after the scouts retired it as a scouting symbol.

 

I was thinking more Native American than scout , but did offer the possibility of a Native American, who happened to be a Boy Scout, in England, on Jamboree, after 1939, acquiring the coin, bringing it back to the States with him, and, while sitting around with nothing better to do, taking a hammer and punches, that were available and meaningful to him, and marking the coin with three icons that were most familiar to him and his tribe.
(Whew)
All three symbols were/are very meaningful to Native Americans, especially the Navajo and the Hopi.

Now, to my thinking, I believe we can safely rule out the Nazi Germany theory, and probably, even the Boy Scout theory, but I just don't think we can, in any way, rule out the Native American theory.
After all, the only connection to all three symbols that I can think of is the Native American one.

Now, just for fun, let's imagine this coin passed through many hands, three of whom were a Nazi, a Boy Scout, and a Navajo Indian. Sounds like the start of a joke.
lol

 

actually the swastika is the backward one, since the other pre-dated it by a long time

also note:
1) The Nazi emblem is rotated 45 degrees;
and 2) the Nazi emblem is reversed.

 

Looks like a chicken and egg thing.

 

The left-facing one is a Sauwastika, not a swastika.

 

Jackeline Bouvier (Kennedy)