Well that is awkward....

Well, yes, yes i would like to see an example.
I would like to see as many neon examples, obverse + reverse images you have the time & energy to post. Ive been putting together a toned type set, for a few years now, and the Peace Dollar hole has yet to be filled. One of these days i would love to own one, but i feel the need to not only be picky, but be skeptical of every coin up for consideration

 

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As soon as we stop labelling people "experts" only to need to have said alleged experts back off of their previous supposed statements of fact. When they stop, I will. Not until then.

 

You can post it but I won’t since I promised no TruViews in that thread.

 

But that wasn’t a statement of fact, it was based on ignorance. Hall made that statement based on his own personal experience. A fact would be that Peace Dollars don’t tone in the same dramatic fashion in bags as Morgan Dollars. But to extrapolate that to mean that Peace Dollars can only develop monochromatic toning naturally and that any rainbow toning is evidence of AT is ridiculous.

The Peace Dollars didn’t reside in vaults for nearly as long as Morgans, air conditioning was more prevalent, and they didn’t have the ridiculous mintages of the common date Morgans. All of these factors play a role in the fact that less Peace Dollars are rainbow toned.

 

I agree to the extent that the name "Hall" and the common noun "ignorance" need to be found in far more sentences than has been the past norm. The quasi hero worship in this field makes me nauseous.

"The evil men do lives after them, [and their publishing dates], the good is oft interred with their bones. So let it be with [cut edit] "Bob Campbell" and "David Hall". I come to bury them, not to praise them."

As far as I know, EVERY attempt so far to get a numismatist certified as an "expert" in a court, which means that his opinion may be considered as evidence, has ended up crashing and burning. They all seem to overstate their certainty. Of course perhaps the REAL experts decline to give testimony, because they decline to be scripted by shysters, or take ideological blood money for their testimony.

 

I was only ever able to acquire one monster toned Peace Dollar. My opinion was that the toning was natural, but it was very deep, muted the luster, and lacked the overall presence found on most rainbow toned coins in my collection. I paid an enormous premium and was never really happy with the coin and eventually sold it.



Most of my collection were either monochromatic toned coins or like the one shown below which had secondary toning from storage in a Dansco album.



After finding out first hand how difficult it was to locate rainbow toned Peace Dollars, I shifted my collection to include higher graded example with less dramatic toning, like the gold toned premium gem shown below.




And despite my disagreement with Hall's hyperbolic statement that all rainbow toned Peace Dollars are AT, I think his overall point is worthy, and that any rainbow toned Peace Dollar should face the highest level of scrutiny. When considering buying one of these, if anything makes you uncomfortable about it, then you should pass.

 

Regardless of if the original Peace dollar is NT or AT or QT, that is plain embarrassing (and awkward)!

 

That was pretty much my point. I think it might be MA, but it’s funny that no one realized they had it as an example of AT (especially after grading the coin at least 4 times!).

 

Isn't "MA" just really a tacit admission that nobody knows anything and everybody's just making it all up on the fly? Seems like an awfully shaky base for a specialty to me.

 

Sure there are .. let me make one for you !!

 

PRECISELY!!!! And not just for Peace dollars either. Just about anything.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaa-men! But then again, I'd extend that analysis to the vast majority of series.

 

Gave this a best answer vote. Not sure what the question is though. Oh well.

 

No, it is an admission that they can't be 100% certain, for obvious reasons. But to ignore that there are naturally toned coins that exhibit certain indicators and that there are AT coins that also exhibit indicators because you can't achieve a 100% certainty level is silly. We use these indicators of either NT or AT to make the best judgement we can about the originality of the toning and if we think the coin is NT, we deem the toning MA (market acceptable). You want to trivialize the process because doing so helps your narrative.

And this is where I diverge from the people of this forum. Pretty much everyone here seems to think that whipping up and AT coin that can pass the TPGs as MA is an elementary feat. Yet when I challenge anyone on this forum to prove they could actually do it, I am undefeated, for over 10 years.

 

Why would you, the vast majority of series don't have anywhere near the same rarity of rainbow toners that Peace Dollars enjoy. If you want to include SLQs, WLHs, and Liberty Nickels, then I would say OK.

 

Elementary? Oh gosh no.
Impossible? Even a stronger no.
It all depends on how much spare time a talented chemist wants to throw at it.

 

In my experience, almost ALL truly high end Liberty Nickels do have a little something, something, going on, but I'd not call it as anything resembling the Morgans.

 

This is where we part company philosophically. I don't find it at all "silly"; I find it 100% "necessary".

 

What % of rainbow toned coins do you think are original? What is your solution to separate the original from the artificial?

 

I rarely see a truly rainbow toned Liberty Nickel that approaches anything like you see on both Buffalos and Jeffersons. They usually have light pastel monochromatic toning. Shades of gold, peach, rose, and powder blue are pretty common.