Featured The Slabbed (NGC/PCGS) AT-QT (Artificial/Questionable Toning) Thread

Weren't there shenanigans in Central America?

 

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I am wonder how that made it into a slab?
AT

 

How could NGC think this was anything other than AT? I vote blatant AT. It's not even close. Yuck.

 

QT because of the central blue. The progression just does not look right, unless it is really deep first-cycle blue. However, that is a very thin region of patina thickness, so it seems unlikely that such a large area would have the same patina thickness over multiple different elevations of the coin.

 

May I post a coin that is not slabbed just for opinions?

 

Start another thread and tag me and the others.

 

Ok. I will try that.

 

It is up and I think I actually did the tags correct.

 

AT/QT on the Peace Dollar.

@heavycam.monstervam

 

Where is the more on that answer you mentioned about this coin after the guessing?

 

Here is the more:

https://forums.collectors.com/discu...oned-peace-dollar-the-facts-and-conclusion/p1

And the summary from the 1st page:

1. The coin was artificially toned and then sold by gototoningcoins on eBay for $55.

2. The coin was then further "enhanced" to appear more natural. You would need to see the coin in-hand to understand this.

3. A very well respected dealer who is an ex-PCGS grader approached us with this coin. I am withholding his name because nobody else needs to have egg on their face because of this. No, he doesn't post to this message board either.

4. He told us how he came to aquire the coin from a small Bay Area dealer at the Long Beach show. It was in this dealer's case in a 2x2 envelope and that dealer basically had 2 or 3 others interested in the coin. All of them put in bids for the coin and it was sold to the dealer we ultimately purchased it from. We were informed that the coin was exceedingly expensive for a raw Peace dollar.

5. He took the coin, still in the 2x2 envelope to the NGC table and submitted it in the 2x2 envelope (I've confirmed this with a representative from NGC) with several other coins for walkthrough. As you know, NGC gave the coin an MS66*.

6. He approached our table with the coin and was very excited. BlindedbyEgo from the boards was there during the transaction. With all of the known factors (well respected and honest dealer and ex-PCGS grader offering the coin and believing the color was authentic and had enough faith in it to buy it raw for a large chunk of change, it was bid on by at least two other dealers who also thought the color was real, and NGC Blessing it with an MS66 and a Star), we felt that since the coin had made it this far down the filtering process, it had to be real even though it had unusual toning.

7. After I had the coin imaged, Ron Sirna called me and told me that he thought the coin looked ED because of the deep toning on the central obverse. I agreed that the image made the toning look dark but in-hand it was more of a thick patination of powder blue. Again, this coin needs to be seen in-hand.

8. I did recieve other phone calls from those who specialize in toned coins and wanted to know how much the coin was. I am assuming that at the right number a sale would have been made but that's just speculation and there's been way too much of that around here lately so it doesn't matter.

9. I posted the coin on eBay with a very enthusiastic description which, in light of recent events, seems very laughable now. What I thought I knew about the coin, the fact that it was in an envelope for a very very long time, turned out to be very very false because the dealer we purchased it from was also taken by the story.

10. Pat Braddick made a thread with information and pictures from gototoning's ebay auction depiciting the very same Peace dollar. I commend Pat for bringing this situation to light. When I asked Pat about the information he told me that another dealer provided him with false information that "WE" were the original submitters to NGC and that this "dealer" has a personal problem with US. I would like to thank Pat for his openmindedness to this information because he knew the information was false and didn't post it even though it would have added some spice to the subject.

11. I immediately removed the eBay listing and the coin from our website as this information came to my attention so that I could investigate the matter thoroughly.

12. After making contact with both the dealer we purchased the coin from and NGC, an agreement was made to start the wheels of removing this coin from the market altogether. I asked the NGC representative whether the coin was submitted in a 2x2 envelope and they confirmed that it had been. I was instructed to send the coin to NGC for "appearance review" and I did so by shipping it overnight. Yesterday, I recieved a call from NGC about the coin and it was deemed that the coin is in-fact AT and should never have been holdered. An AT coin has been removed from the marketplace and everybody handled the situation in a very professional manner. NGC has stepped up to the plate to make sure everyone is satisfied with regards to buying this coin out of the market.

 

Summary of results:
-----------------------

Coin 1 - Clad Dime (pg.1) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 2 - Franklin (pg. 1) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 3 - CBH (pg. 4) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 4 - Silv PR Ike (pg. 5) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 5 - Peace Dollar (pg. 7) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 6 - Ohio Silv PR 25c (pg. 8) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 11 (AT/QC)
Coin 7 - 1964 MS 25c (pg. 9) - 11 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 8 - 1974 Clad PR 25c (pg. 11) - 4 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 9 - 85-O Morgan (pg. 12) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC) *no points*
Coin 10 - 1890 IHC (pg. 13) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 3 (AT/QC)
Coin 11 - 1893 Col. Commem (pg. 14) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 12 - Silver 3c (pg. 15) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 13 - SBA (pg. 16) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 14 - Large Cent (pg. 16) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 15 - Franklin (pg. 17) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 14 (AT/QC)
Coin 16 - 1964 10c (pg. 18) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 10 (AT/QC)
Coin 17 - 1966 1c SMS 67*(pg. 19) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 18 - Silve 25c (pg. 19) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 19 - Peace Dollar (pg. 20) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 10 (AT/QC)
-----------------------

NT/MA: 11 total
AT/QC: 8 total

-----------------------
Points:

ddddd - 6
Lehigh96 - 1
TheFinn - 1

 

Looks right up your alley "fraudulent behavior".

 

Floor is open for posting....

 

Here is one I've always wondered about:

 

I've seen a bunch of similar ones straight graded and copper can be a wildcard in terms of toning. I'm on the fence but will lean towards:
MA

 

For those who don't know, Brandon Kelly (formerly Anaconda, Polaris, John E. Cash) is Poorguy in the CU Forum thread linked by ddddd in his post.

 

I don't really see anything about this coin that is questionable. I say it is solidly NT/MA.

 

I wouldn't question it, NT/MA.

 

The Lincoln looks OK to me too.