Featured Can you define artificial toning ?

Farther down in that very same publication, there is THIS, Jim.

"As a coin collector you are commissioned by posterity to handle each coin in your possession carefully and to preserve it in the condition in which it was received. What you do or fail to do will be directly responsible for the condition and quality of your coins when they are owned and appreciated by future generations of numismatists."

So sayeth the Bowers. Praise be to Bressett.

Exaggerated for emphasis? Not guilty, Jim, not guilty.

We have obligations to posterity and I take them seriously. I also interpret that as a directive to avoid and attempt to prevent ALL damage, including but not limited to, toning. Doing less than one's utmost to prevent toning is a "crime against numismatics". Of course, "one's utmost" is a moving and constantly changing standard over the eons. That does NOT minimize the obligation a whit. Intentionally using 1930's storage products is as heinous as pouring acid on coins.

 

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Well apparently they exist because a search for them produces covers for free range laptops.

 

Bob Campbell is one of those dealers who I will nearly unquestioningly listen to, if that says anything.

 

Bob was ALSO the guy who said during a talk at the New York ANA show in the mid-90's that ABSOLUTELY EVERY toned coin with any green on it is artificially toned, so there's that.

 

Here's the part I can't get my arms around, Doug. If we're only 20 years removed from a time when the past utterances of "the top experts in the field" have turned out to be utter hogwash, AND WE ARE, why on earth would I ever want to trust ANY utterances about that same field today. I don't and I won't. EVERYBODY is just spitballin'. There ARE NO experts on toned coins. The field itself is just too shady and sketchy.

 

No, its because it is too CHEMICAL and PSEUDORELIGIOUS

and they don't see how the other could miss the significance.

 

I’m sure there was context or a qualifier.

One of the most famous natural toners



Resulting diagram from a physics-based analysis.

 

Nope. No. Qualifier. Whatsoever. Only 20 years ago. It's why I'll NEVER trust anything anyone says about toning, period.

By the way, a coin that looks almost EXACTLY like the one you have posted was used as an example of Artificial Toning, BY BOB CAMPBELL! It was in his slide show. Real 35mm slides. Kodak Medalist projector, the whole shmeer.

I just looked up the year. It was August of 1997 at the Marriot Marquis in Times Square. It was the first Numismatic Theater talk I had ever attended. Now I have GIVEN six of them, since name-changed to "Money Talks". (I use Apple Keynote.)

 

Okay, if green doesn't appear in naturally toned coins, what is the physical phenomenon that causes thin silver sulfide films to "skip over" that layer thickness? What's the particular difference between naturally-generated and artificially-generated sulfide layers?

Color me skeptical.

 

So what I hear you saying is that, PERTAINING TO COLOR ONLY, not grades per se, the TPGS firms are more chastised and introspective today than in the past decades.

Because MAN, they used to be REALLY STUPID!!!!

 

I know why Bob was wrong then and may be closer to right now, but the explanation would take multiple pages of boring photo biz jargon. Suffice it to say there is STILL WAY MORE CERTAINTY BEING SPEWED BY MISNAMED EXPERTS (as if...)than the subject can justify.

 

Then why, pray tell, are there OBVIOUS AT ASE’s in PGCS slabs? I see them regularly.

 

If you're ever moved to start a thread and type those multiple pages, please tag me. Boring is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Brief version - traditional color photography, ALL OF IT, is based on three primary colors - cyan, magenta, yellow. No green, no blue, no red. No anything else. Theoretically, it would be nice if those three layers were independent of one another, but they are not. The primaries pop in traditional photography and other colors are compromises. Green is possible, but basically, it was hard to get it rendered well on film. Green is cyan plus yellow, but the yellow in most films was far from optimal. Same with orange, reds, purples. That, I believe, led to bad photographs of greens on coins circulating around.

By contrast, digital photography uses the additive primaries - red, blue, green. The predominant color pallete is just different now.

Readers Digest condensed version.

One edit. Late in the film era, Fuji experimented with a four color system. It was a technical breakthrough but the extra cost doomed it. You can see it in those negatives. They are just darker than three layer films.

 

One, since nobody else witnessed this talk and there is no video or transcript, we have to take your word/recollection that is what he actually said. Second, this was 25 years, if asked today, he would backpedal from that demonstrably false statement as quickly as he could.

And David Hall has backpedalled from that statement about Peace Dollars which was a remark based solely on what he had seen. His position on rainbow toned Peace Dollars is now much like mine, they are extremely rare, and each one deserves the highest level of scrutiny.

Again, those experts made hyperbolic statements decades ago based on what they had seen. The introduction of the internet has allowed everybody to see much more information and thousands more coins than if you were restricted to only seeing coins in hand. It is actually very similar to what happened in the poker world. The brick and mortar pros like Doyle Brunson & Johnny Chan were kings before the internet, but once online poker was introduced, you twenty something players were able to see far more hands by multi-tabling. A year experience online was equal to over 5 years in a brick and mortar setting. Today, poker is dominated by those same young online players.

Additionally, toning was an emerging field that was largely ignored by the numismatic community, and even the "experts" were still in the learning stages. And lastly, you are the kind of guy who has an academic's view of "expertise". Rather than listening to opinions and allowing your sense to dictate whether or not that person has a logical & reasonable argument, you would rather trust a person have held positions of power in numismatic organizations and have been bestowed numismatic awards.