Featured Can you define artificial toning ?

So you hope that I think every toned coin in TPG plastic is NT? I’m confused!

 

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In one sense of the word, yes. In another? No stinking way. Her “service” on the ANA Board of Governors was a joke and a scandal. Self-aggrandizing and insane self-dealing pontificating on stilts.

I had a better BoG attendance rate during her tenure than she did, and I wasn’t on the Board! She may hold the all time record for delaying a quorum. I don’t call that leadership.

I give ABSOLUTELY ZERO “props” for being a big dollar dealer, but that’s just me.

 

Every coin YOU choose, yes. I can’t imagine why any honest collector would want an AT coin, save for using it for a talk.

 

Ok, that’s close to the truth but not exact. I have my own standards for what constitutes market acceptable with relation to toning. My standards are not the same as those of the TPGs and my standards are markedly more conservative. As I’ve stated many times before, I consider market acceptability to be on a left-right scale with left being AT and right being NT.

In the event that I am interested in coin that is in the middle, where the originality of the toning is much more of a guess, I rely on the market acceptability afforded by the TPG plastic to give me a certain level of liquidity. Please remember that I buy all of my coins online sight unseen from photos. On E-Bay, I can just return the coin, but in auctions, where sales are final, that liquidity is important in the event that my opinion of the originality of the toning changes once I have the coin in hand.

If I buy a toned coin, and keep that coin in my collection, then it meets my standard for market acceptability. The only exception to this are the Appalachian Jefferson Nickels which have a well established level of liquidity in the marketplace despite the more questionable nature of their toning.

Btw, if you were paying attention, I actually agreed with Doug that often times, discerning the originality of toning is a guess.

 

No kidding, I nearly always admire this kind of thinking. I also have my own standards for almost everything and I mostly don’t give a rodent’s rump what ANYONE else says or thinks. Yes, that is a local ethos of where I’m from.

Because I extremely rarely ever sell anything, liquidity is a non-issue for me, per se.

 

Kurt, are you saying you have no toned coins, in a slab or raw that are toned? And if they changed after a while , you would dip them before they contaminated your opinion?

Also as far as Laura, I laughed at your response"

Kurt, You have raised and waved your ANACS flag many, many times in this discussion, so don't you feel it is the old pot/kettle discussion?

 

I may never be able to understand this. Some things remain inscrutable to me.

 

I ain’t runnin’ for nuttin’ or presenting myself as The Answer for anything, as opposed to what Laura did during her BoG campaign. I’m no Answer; but I may be the Inquisitor.

 

Kurt, come on, you can’t be a big dollar dealer without a certain level of numismatic acumen. Her grading skills and understanding of the high end market are top notch even if her attitude shrinks to that of a forum troll from time to time.

 

They are beautiful!! It’s that simple.

 

Correction, Jim. ANA and ANACS are VASTLY different things, despite their common genesis.

As for your questions: I have never even once paid a premium for any toning, not a cent. I have never bought ANY brightly colored coin, except to prove to a skeptic that color adds to an NGC grade, all by itself. I dislike deeply toned coins, I literally can’t stand looking at them. As Paul knows, I do own quite a few slabbed coins in old small ANACS plastic and even modern NGC plastic, that are still toning in their slabs, and NOT JUST A LITTLE, either. I only own one PCGS mono toned Morgan dollar, and that dog is still toning, too. (Note: with the exception of a 2016 slabbed 64 Kennedy, every one of the above are ex-Teletrade) I still have never owned my first stable toned coin. Not one. Ironically, my Dansco album coins turn SLOWER than my slabbed coins do. Nope, I don’t understand it either, and I like it even less. I. Hate. Toned. Coins. Probably always will.

I also have never used a commercial “dip”, but I have used Kodak Stain Remover SR-10 for the same purpose.

 

I do find worldwide attitudes about toning endlessly fascinating. It seems that the appreciation of toning is nearly completely a US thing, and hard to find anywhere else on the planet. That in itself causes me to question it deeply. Like many things exclusively American, it seems to be due to “pimping and pumping” promotion.

In short, I find a little GENTLE dipping VASTLY preferable to looking at a toned coin. Yecch!

 

Not good enough.

 

Paul, hang on there a minute! I used to be a Leica camera dealer. Dealing with the extremely well-heeled customer requires no particular rare skill. They’re egomaniacs. You flatter them, figuratively osculate the occasional glute, and all is wunnerful.

I have heard DIRECTLY AND SPECIFICALLY that Laura Sperber is so dependent on the PCGS with bean model precisely because SHE IS INCAPABLE of grading coins. And that is from a TRUE expert.

 

Whoever told you that isn't worth listening to anymore. They either let their feelings cause them to spread false information or are just clueless.

 

I think I felt it move.

 

I am NOT going to “out” the source, but it is one of the truly gigantic figures of the hobby, who is universally admired. ANA “Good Fellow” awardee.

BTW, are @baseball21 and @Lehigh96 the same guy with two accounts or are they just into their own mutual gluteal osculation scene? “Not that there’s anything wrong with that...”

Incidentally, as has been written repeatedly here (correctly) grading at the extreme high end isn’t really grading; it’s “ranking”, something that takes less skill than open grading.

Example: Any shlub could be shown the 5 1913 Liberty nickels and rank them correctly. The “grades” are completely arbitrary.

 

So at best childish and petty who has no problem spreading false information because of an ax to grind or disliking someone. I don't have any admiration for people that fast and loose with the truth like that which is probably from jealously.

Either that or they really don't know what they're talking about, ANA awards don't mean someone has a clue what they're talking about with a specific subject. They're about as meaningful as a Golden Globe at this point anyway. Aside from their grading courses they're fading into irrelevance very quickly

 

I assume you know what Laura looks like and are familiar with her personality. Do you think it is reasonable at all to assume she uses charisma to sustain her business? She herself is an egomaniac, and likes the adulation afforded to being one of the best. I'm not saying your statement is untrue, I'm saying she does not fit the profile that you have described.

Her business model depends on PCGS with CAC bean which necessitates that she be able to identify coins that will qualify for the desired PCGS grade and CAC approval. She identifies both raw coins and NGC coins that will cross, and then submits them to both PCGS and CAC which will increase the value & liquidity of those coins. Keep in mind that she isn't doing this with 3 figure coins, she does it with truly rare coins where the spread between the CAC approved and the low end for the grade is financially significant. You can't do what her firm does without have both an extensive knowledge of coin grading and the numismatic market. Anyone who says otherwise is probably doing so out of some sort of personal animus.

 

Why not? Have you ever seen one?