Featured Can you define artificial toning ?

I don’t do CU. I won’t either. I haven’t even lurked in over a year. Newsflash: I am NOT a PCGS fan, not even slightly.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Morgan Dollars are the population of rainbow toned coins. There are more rainbow toned Morgan Dollars than all other series of coins combined. Yet here you are bashing my evidence while not providing any evidence to support your claim.

I saw three posts dedicated to refuting the fact that you live in Hickville, PA but nothing of actual substance on the issue.

 

Yes, you like to stick to the outcast forum where you can bully people with your fringe ideas about toning. The real reason you don't do CU is because you would be mocked, ridiculed, and lambasted on a daily basis. There is a guy on the CU forum who shares your opinion of toning, and give Ricko credit, he is willing to stand in there an trade blows with the heavyweights. You on the other hand, well, did you ever see the Seinfeld episode when Kramer takes up Karate? Yeah, you are Kramer.

 

I agree FULLY with the premise of the first paragraph. In fact, that’s WHY Brian Silliman teaches it in ANA sanctioned grading courses. He teaches that ALL non-Morgan toned coins deserve the maximum in jaundiced eye skepticism. Why? Because what happened in those bags all those decades is thoroughly studied and widely understood. No other toned coins are entitled to the presumption of validity that many Morgans are.

And that is NOT TO SAY there are no other legit toners. It just relates to benefit of the doubt.

 

Why would I participate in the message board of a firm I do not like and do not use? A firm whose coins I do own I am gradually crossing out of?

 

By the way, I found the writing of QDB where he discussed the problem of artificially toned coins in TPGS plastic. The quantitative adjective he used was, and I quote, “countless”.

TPGS slabbing, ESPECIALLY in older slabs, is no indicator of toning legitimacy. Ironically, newer seems to be better.

 

Oh, one more Hicksville point: Remember Morphy, the one-time partner of Laura Sperber’s Legend? Where were they located? Swartzville, Lancaster County, PA. Smack dab in Hicksville and a brief stroll from my previous residence until October 2017.

I was in the room for the initial Legend-Morphy auction. I walked to it. “Hicksville”. Pfffft

Incidentally, they parted ways because Sperber wanted Morphy to go “coins exclusively” and Morphy balked because they were already the #1 firm in antique toys and they didn’t want to give that up.

Know any of that? Or isn’t that part of your warped view of “the market”? How did I get that? I talked to Laura personally and SHE TOLD ME, person to person.

 

Kurt, don't you have one of the state issued wood carts with tail lights and license plate? I thought all government officials drove/fed them. Jim

 

My commuting vehicle THESE days is a couple of pairs of Allen Edmonds wingtips. When I was in my previous digs, it was a Ford Taurus (not black) and a monthly Amtrak pass. My fun vehicle? A couple of cats in harnesses, a skateboard and a small whip.

 

Then you do this and make a reasoned post about toned coins rather than your normal hyperbolic fear mongering.

I do however disagree a little with your statement. ALL toned coins deserve scrutiny as to originality, including Morgan Dollars. Because common date Morgans are so prevalent in mint state at close to melt, they are an obvious target for coin doctors. Yes, bag toning is one of the most common sources of dramatic natural rainbow toning, but the attempts to replicate bag toning by coin doctors has yielded thousands of toned Morgans with other toning patterns other than the classic progression of color seen on bag toners and crescent toners.

Contrast those strangely toned Morgans with tab toned classic commemoratives, 1957-58 mint set toners, target toned 20th century coinage from years in Dansco style albums. Each series has its own calling card so to speak, and some series just don’t tone up well at all. The most notorious series are Peace Dollars. Peace Dollars are common in monochromatic gold, mottled shades of russet and earthy colors, and even some electric blue peripheral toning which I usually attribute to secondary toning of dipped Peace Dollars. That said, finding a Peace Dollar with actual rainbow toning is exceedingly hard and everyone should be subjected to the highest levels of scrutiny. And if I sound a little like David Hall, then so be it. I collected toned Peace Dollars and even when I found a rainbow toned Peace, I wasn’t convinced the toning was natural.

You see Kurt, if you wanna discuss this topic in a reasonable manner, you will find we are much closer in our views than you think. But that requires you to leave the propaganda and hyperbolic fear mongering at the door.

 

To learn from people who have a ton of experience. For the record, I’m not a PCGS guy, despite the recent rumors posted on this forum. I have been an NGC customer for years.

 

Interesting. No snark, I’m serious.

 

If you could provide the whole quote and cite the source, I would appreciate it.

We started a new thread on this subject, and while I’ve seen a few that were ridiculous, I’m not convinced that the TPGs aren’t diligent in weeding out questionably toned coins.

 

Our clearest and most relevant disagreement is that I am a skeptic of EVERYTHING by nature and training. Too many things strike me as “awfully convenient” for some shmuck to turn a quick buck, and I am suspicious of everyone, just like my neighbors here are.

 

I’ll try to get that to you. Again, QDB is saying something about the firms that must carefully be parsed as to “tense”. His criticism is clearly related to the time when toners were a newer specialty. He has not, to my knowledge, indicted them for their more recent policies. This is all toning specific, not grading per se.

We need to be clear on, as Doug knows well, the key difference between “were” and “are”. The problem seems to be that there is no practical way to force a re-examination of coins.

 

Listen, I consider TPG grading an advancement of numismatics. You and your friends in Hicksville who cling to the antequated days of raw coins are the same as people who reject technological advancements. You know the old guys who refuse to have a smart phone and don’t know how to send a text message on a flip phone? If you wanna live in the past and celebrate the good ole days until the reaper comes, that’s fine, but there isn’t any inherent virtue in doing so.

As for Laura, nobody in numismatics is more firmly entrenched in the PCGS CAC model than she is. Will you cast the same criticism at her that you do towards me?

And of course I didn’t know any of that, I’m neither ancient or from Hicksville, like you are.

 

Let me ask you a serious question. Do you think I buy rainbow toned coins in NGC or PCGS plastic with the belief that every one is NT?

 

Oh Paul, you have NO IDEA of the vicious snark, for all KINDS of stuff, that I have hurled in Laura’s direction, but you can probably guess.

You and Laura share the same problem IMO. Tunnel vision.

 

Honestly? I would genuinely hope so!

 

Snark aside, do you recognize her as one of the leaders of numismatics?