Prove me wrong: Market Acceptable does NOT mean problem free.

I clearly explained to him what signs I saw and tried showing them to him, hoping for an educational encounter. He was having none of it.

But PCGS still goes against their own standards and straight-grades problem coins which show signs of an abrasive cleaning (the OP coin shows this). That implies that a straight-grade does not mean “problem-free.”

 

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PCGS, NGC , etc render an opinion of our coins. Yes, their opinion matters more than mine, based on their expertise and experience, but it is still an opinion in the end... not gospel. I think one problem in the coin community is that folks take that opinion as the end-all-say-all, when you very well may get three different opinions from them if the coin were sent in three times.

 

TypeCoin is on a rampage, we can’t stop him with arguments or experience...

 

You all only want PCGS’s words, so I am giving you PCGS’s words. How much more do you want?

 

Maybe you and PCGS define abrasive differently. Furthermore, PCGS not strictly adhering to their own standards is a different issue than whether or not a straight graded coin is considered to be a problem free holder.

You have quoted the rule, but based on PCGS grading practices, there are clearly exceptions to the rule that they have not publicly disclosed.

 

How many ways can you really define “abrasive”?

They are not publicly disclosed for the same reason they do not explicitly define “problem-free”: it would look bad for them given what has already been graded.

 

Ive always been under the impression that straight graded slab and problem free are two completely seperate definitions. Idk that ive ever read that anywhere, i suppose i came up with it on my own. I usually only hear the term problem free when the coin in question is raw though. I guess im just not gullible enough to assume that EVERY straight graded coin is going to be problem free.

 

If you wish to argue, he is your man.

 

Both a paper towel and sand paper can abrade the surface of a coin, but the result will look very different. Again, it’s a matter of severity.

You mean they want ambiguity in their grading standards in order to grade holistically rather than adhering to a strict set of standards that would make grading some coins extremely difficult.

 

I am not a PCGS fanboy, but I think they’re generally doing a pretty decent job for the hobby. If all coins with minor issues ended up in bodybags, it would ruin their business. Now you’re going to tell me that there are straight graded PCGS coins with major issues. Well, there sure are, but I believe that’s the exception to the rule.

 

I just noticed they raised submission fees $5/tier.

 

I ranked in 1st place for many years in that category on this forum, but he has officially taken my crown.

 

This is definitely a fact that PCGS and even NGC sometimes gives key dates a "bump"of a few points.

+1. No further comment required. I like how you just kinda slipped that into the discussion Jason, lol.

I'm not sure how those posts relate to each other. I am, indeed, trying to make a point that the two terms "problem free" and "straight graded", are not synonymous. What LeHigh has said is also correct, that people have come to accept straight graded coins to be "problem free", which, as the coin in the OP illustrates, is simply not always the case.

 

Another thing a lot of folks have trouble grasping is that the TPG's value or appraise a coin by what they think it will sell for in the marketplace. They value coins, they don't truly grade them.

We also can establish that LeHigh is a consummate TPG fanboy, but he has stated that he doesn't necessarily agree with their assessments all the time, rather just accepts the fact that they often slab problem coins.

 

Who taught you this? This is only ever done with high value rarities, they don't do this with the coins that we collect, they simply grade them using market grading standards.

Fanboy huh? I will remember that. And I don't accept that they often slab problem coins. I accept the fact that what constitutes a problem is based on severity.

 

You've said this more than once though- the coins that "we collect". Who's "we"? And this is just facts. I know it, you know it, everybody knows it. The TPG's are not graders, they're appraisers.

Go ahead and remember, I didn't mean to say that in a contemptuous manner, but I guess you took it as such.

 

We = everyone on this forum. Nobody I've encountered on Cointalk has the money to collect coins that would be value graded or ranked by the TPGs. Somebody taught you this nonsense that the TPGs are "appraisers", and my guess is that it was somebody on this forum.

Oh, so you typically call people "fanboy" and mean it in a complimentary fashion?

 

That's not nonsense, that's facts. That is why the TPG's are in business.

It wasn't a compliment, but it wasn't an insult either; simply just an observation, again, based on facts.

 

Abrasive is still abrasive. PCGS’s definition leaves no room for severity

 

How do you know? You aren’t privy to the exceptions.