Help identifying French ECU

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Mark Metzger, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    This coin is available in an auction as part of a small lot. I can't seem to pin it down. It seems to eBay and Anna french provincial ECU but I can't find an example with the same legend. We're these counterfeited at any point? I'm suspicious.
    Any insight would be appreciated.
    Thanks!
    Screenshot_20181125-082652.png Screenshot_20181125-082759.png
     
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  3. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    This appears to be a luigino struck for Maria-Maddalena Centurioni, wife of Pascal Malaspina (1663-1669). Luigini were copies of French coins struck for the Levant trade. It is an interesting story.

    In 1659 Anne-Marie-Louise de Bourbon, after a tumultuous life, retired to her territories in Dombes and started to strike coins at her Trévoux mint modeled on royal French issues. One coin, a 1/12 écu worth 5 sols, was for some reason so popular in the Ottoman Empire that it was valued there at 10 sols. The Trévoux mint soon concentrated all its resources on striking these coins. The royal coin on which it was modeled, the 5 sols of Louis XIII and XIV, was equally popular and was exported in large quantities. Soon mints in other countries, especially small Italian mints, got into the business, striking their own imitations of the Dombes and French royal issues. (The later Maria Theresia Taler is another example of a coin struck by many mints (not just Austrian) for export to Asia where it was well accepted). Eventually supply overwhelmed demand and also the reputation of the luigini was hurt by some mints producing debased coins.

    Emperor Leopold I granted the mint right to Marquis Pasquale Malaspina on April 10 1666 and he quickly got into the luigino business with a mint at Fosdinovo (and later also at Ponsanello). Most (although not your one ) were struck in the name of his wife, Maria-Maddalena Centurioni, perhaps because of the feminine bust on the coin. In Jean de Mey's book, Repertoire Général des Luidgini (Wemmel, Belgium 1989) the obverse legend on your coin seems to be # 23 HEC.EST.VIRTVTIS.IMAGO with perhaps an error (does yours start HES rather than HEC ?) and the reverse legend #B. This particular obv./rev. combination is # 85 in his catalogue. It is also apparently listed as Gamberini 89 in La imitazioni e le contreffazioni monetarie nel Mondo , Vol. IV, by Cesare Gamberini di Scarfea (Bologna 1972). de Mey lists under Maria Maddalena Centurioni 26 obverse legends and 40 different reverse legends in Fosdinovo. Leaving aside varieties, the coin itself is not particularly rare.

    If your coin is really écu size, that would be special and , as far as I know, unknown. Luigini normally have a diameter of about 20 mm and weigh about 2.15 g.
     
  4. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    Thanks @talerman ! That has to be the single most detailed and informative response in the history of responses. Maybe I'll start minting coins with my wife's bust on them... have a bid in on the lot that includes the coin. Hopefully I win. Any idea on value?
     
  5. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    Value seems to vary widely.

    On the optimistic end, this coin, which seems to be a small variety of your type in EF, sold for CHF 800 (also $ 800 at today's exchange rate) against an estimate of CHF 100 at a Chaponnière & Hess-Divo auction in Switzerland in May 2011.

    [​IMG]

    ITALIA
    FOSDINOVO

    Maria Maddalena Centurioni, 1663-1669. Luigino 1666. Cammarano 066a. 2.20 g.
    Raro. Variante con fiocco al diritto. Splendido

    Estimate: 100 CHF

    On the other hand, this coin in EF, which seems to be the same type as yours, was offered in the Gadoury Dec. 2014 auction in Monaco with a minimum bid of EUR 600 but found no takers and was unsold.

    [​IMG]

    Fosdinovo
    Maria Maddalena Centurioni Malaspina 1666-1671 Luigino, 1666, AG 2.6g.
    Avers : HEC EST VIRTUTIS IMAGO buste d'Anne-Marie de Montpensier à droite.
    Revers : DEUS MEUS ET OMNIA Écu de France couronné à trois lys.
    Ref : Cam 66a, CNI -. Ex Kunst und Munzen 24 (1984) lot 1439.
    Conservation : Superbe

    Starting Price: 600 EUR

    This one, with a different reverse legend, also in EF, sold for EUR 200 in the same auction.

    [​IMG]

    Fosdinovo
    Maria Maddalena Centurioni Malaspina 1666-1671
    Luigino, 1666, AG 1.98g.
    Avers : HEC EST VIRTUTIS IMA buste d'Anne-Marie de Montpensier à droite.
    Revers : PER TOTAM ASIAM CURRENS Écu de France couronné à trois lys.
    Ref : Cam 65var, CNI -
    Conservation : Superbe

    Starting Price: 150 EUR

    This one, in good VF but quite different legends, apparently sold for GBP 25 in a Naville Auction in Sept. 2015.
    [​IMG]

    Italy, Fosdinovo, Maria Maddalena Centurioni Malaspina, 1666-1671 Luigino 1666, AR 21mm., 2.22g. Draped bust r. Rev. Emblem. Cammarano 66.

    Toned. Good Very Fine.

    Estimate: 20 GBP

    Obviously legends and condition make a big difference. Your coin is of a lower grade than any of these. Best of luck ! If it is part of a lot, you may be getting a bargain.
     
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  6. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    Thanks again for the input. I took a closer look and the legend does read HES not HEC as you suggested it might.
     
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