GTG - 1859-O - Seated Liberty Half - NGC

Here is the real choice. Learn from the professionals at the TPGs or learn from an arrogant self proclaimed internet expert who believes he is so good that he can’t ever conceive that his grades assigned by viewing a photogaph could ever be wrong.

 

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Hairlines are not a foolproof indicator of cleaning. Both NGC and Larry think it is a problem free coin. That’s enough for me.

 

Can we all agree that TypeCoin needs a chill pill, but also that continuous snarky comments only feeds his aggarvation with us and the hobby?

 

Yes that's true. Seeing the coin in hand would be the only way to positively tell.

 

That’s all I’m saying, and pretty much all Baseball21 ever said. Yet we routinely get excoriated for saying it, called koolaid drinkers, TPG shills, etc.

 

I do, but mostly because of the people in it. I became more involved with the hobby over the past year, and I lost my patience with the US coin market.

I'm more provoked by people who want to start fights than here to start fights.

I just did.

I am very well aware of that, but the hairlines present on this coin are those of the cleaning type. Long, parallel, and purposeful. Check out the right obverse field if you need help seeing them.

NGC says it is market-acceptable, not necessarily problem-free. Big difference, and you know it.

Again with the blind trust.

 

GTG threads are just that. We get to have fun guessing. I guess and post what I feel the TPG gave the coin, based on the images. As a normal, I'm not going to question what the TPG gave the coin. Two or three of the best at the TPG held the coin. They were not looking at images. I might argue with the grade if I have the coin in hand.

 

Typecoin- This is a grey area. You haven't seen the Coin in-hand.

I agree with you about it being cleaned, but that's my opinion; the hairlines definitely indicate a cleaning to my eye.

Let it die. You're only going to anger yourself more by continuing the jabs. Let's all try to get along and discuss coins.

 

No, it’s not blind trust in NGC. It’s trust in Larry who I have known for years on the forums to be a knowledgeable collector with excellent grading skills. You on the other hand slam the TPGs at every turn in some misguided attempt to increase your own credibility. Instead, it does the opposite.

Regarding you other point, market acceptable means it is not a problem coin. I think what you meant to say was that just because they find it MA, doesn’t mean it wasn’t cleaned. The grade simply means they don’t think the cleaning was harsh enough to warrant a details grade.

 

Market acceptable means exactly what it reads, the coin is simply acceptable in the marketplace, it does not mean it is problem free. A coin can possess problems yet still be market acceptable. TPG's value coins, they don't grade them, LeHigh.

 

I discuss the performance of the TPGs ONLY to make the point that they should not be blindly trusted with classic US coins, and I have been vehemently challenging the two people here who advocate 100% blind trust. The circular logic game has gotten really old.

And if my agenda was to completely discredit the TPGs, then why do I give them an overall 95% accuracy rating? Why do I defend them when defese is due? Why do I use their graded coins to justify my point that another graded coin does not meet the TPGs’ standards? Because my agenda is not to completely discredit the TPGs.

 

When a TPG straight grades a coin, it is considered to be problem free. You guys don’t get to change numismatic nomenclature because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

And are you seriously going to try to lecture me about the nuances of market grading? The fact is that outside the really rare issues, they don’t “value coins” they grade them.

 

Never did I advocate 100% blind trust. But I will advocate that collectors trust the TPG grades over your grade based solely on a photograph 100% of the time. You can’t seriously think you can grade better based on a photo than 3 professional graders who have seen the coin in hand. That’s either insanity or staggering hubris.

And you revised your TPG accuracy to 75% for US classic coins IIRC. And when have you ever defended a TPG? The use of other graded coins is designed to show inconsistency, it isn’t tacit approval of the assigned grade. Heck, two of the coins you posted in this thread to compare you claimed had problems that the TPGs ignored.

 

Let me add on to this:

The introduction of the TPGs has greatly increased the popularity of collecting US coins, which means the hobby will likely continue on for generations. In addition, having a (somewhat) stable standard to compare to has helped countless people learn how to grade, including myself. For that I am grateful.

You are the one changing up the terms. “Problem-free” means it has no problems whatsoever, not “no problems worthy of a details grade.” “Market-acceptible” means the coin has no problems worthy of a details grade. The latter category is a gray area and completely up to the whim of the grader. The former is a straightforward term with a very specific meaning: free of all problems.

 

Where? Where are you getting this misinformation from?

And no, I'm not lecturing you, I'm just stating facts that you are apparently unaware of. Stating that a coin deemed market acceptable by a TPG means that it is problem free, is just flat out wrong, and displays you are misinformed.

 

I wrote a really nasty reply but deleted it. It's clear that you hate the hobby, this site and the members. Stop posting your hate and stop making up stuff. Your one year in the hobby is showing.

 

How long have you been in this hobby?

 

I’m not changing anything. Problem free means straight graded. It doesn’t mean the coin doesn’t have a small scratch, light cleaning, or any other thing you guys can come up with.

The idea of market acceptability is used with respect to toning.

You seriously need to lose your “black and white” view of the coin world. Very little in this hobby works that way.

Problem free means the coin resides in a straight graded holder, nothing more!

 

Over a decade.

 

Exclusively for classic US coins (and probably just for circulated classic pre-Barber US coins). That means for everything else you can pretty blindly trust 100%, though I prefer to be picky.

Mostly on Facebook. But check out my comments in the gassed slab thread. I knew NGC would not slab such an AT coin, so I defended them until it was proven it was gasses.

You already know that I accept the fact that the TPG standard is to ignore minor problems on the rare and valuable early US coins. So I posted two coins that met that standard, and two more which met the standard of “detailing” coins with significant damage. If a coin blantantly does not meet the standards established by the TPG, then I argue that the graders made a mistake. Seems logical.

And my claim for inconsistency stems only from the line which delineates “details” from “straight.”