ANOTHER overgraded PCGS Morgan

That's why the services purportedly created details grading. I can believe that some coins present differently in hand, but there is no way that the amount of damage here is going to look inconspicuous in hand. It should not be in a straight graded slab. Years ago, the coin would have been returned in a flip and not even encapsulated. I can agree with encapsulating damaged coins and grading them with a details grade while noting the damage or alteration, but I cannot agree with the absurd amount of net grading that is done silently.

 

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Here is a question for Lehigh and Baseball et al...: If PCGS is doing such a great job, then why does CAC exist? For many collectors, it isn't merely about solid for the grade coins but in avoiding doctored coins and extremely damaged and/or overgraded coins like the tooled one that appears in this thread.

 

That coin was graded in the 1990s.

They were originally for the high end. I honestly don't think even they thought that they would reach the level of demand they have hence raising their prices to try and keep some of the lower value coins away. The high end has always valued multiple opinions which makes perfect sense when you are about to spend high 4, 5 or 6+ figures on a single coin you would want multiple opinions. You think they ever thought that 100 dollar coins would be being sent to them in large numbers, I don't think they ever planned for that to be what they spent a lot of time on.

They're there to identify the best coins, the ones they know they can sell easily that they would buy sight unseen. The reputation and noted expertise is what gave them such acceptance, others have tried similar things and none have gained they market acceptance they have.

They do NGC as well but for whatever reason there seems to be a group of people on this forum that want to focus all their attention trying to bring PCGS down.

 

I don't see it as anti-PCGS animus at all. I think people are correct to criticize a ridiculously over graded coin. To be sure NGC and every other service have their fair share of egregious errors too, but PCGS grading was out of hand for a while until grading began to tighten again several months ago. Mistakes happen, but the perception of many collectors and dealers (myself included) is that many more mistakes were appearing than normal such that it represented a shift in grading standards and not a one off.

 

The last part wasn't really directed specifially at you just a general commentary from a lot of comments. The problem is that a lot of the people that claimed they were being very lose are now the same ones upset that they aren't getting the grades they want. A major dealer literally made several blog posts complaining he didn't get the grades he wanted and that he is now shifting to NGC, what a nice backhanded compliment for NGC that was implying he knows he will get better grades there.

To be honest the whole situation is getting quite sad, so many when things grade how they think they should try and present themselves as conservative and ultra conservative and now that they're getting the grading they wanted all of a sudden it's time to complain

 

Blah, blah, blah. This post is tantamount to a forum filibuster. Go back and read Heavy’s post, Hockey Night in Canada doesn’t make any sense in that context.

And it has never meant Head Numismatist in Charge. It was clear to everyone that he was making a joke using a risqué acronym, but pretending that it meant anything else is just dishonest. And yes, HNIC is meant to mean big cheese or head honcho, but again, that doesn’t change the fact that the N means what it means.

And you accuse me of spin? Just ridiculous!

 

I posted the movie clip to show definitively the meaning of that acronym. You don’t get to feign indignation about something that you posted.

And you did not post Head Numismatist in Charge in your post about Hall. If you had, none of this would have popped off.

And for the record, I don’t think you are a racist and I think Baseball used the acronym as an escape hatch to extricate himself from the thread.

 

While that is an aspect of CAC approval, the primary purpose of CAC is to combat gradeflation by identifying coins that are solid for the grade. Have you seen the coin in question in hand? If not, how can you claim it is “extremely damaged”?

 

I don't need an escape hatch to ignore trolls. Incessant trolling always leads someone to go too far at some point as they have to keep pushing the limit. That acronym is a racist one in the context of a coin forum. Someone in the little self proclaimed experts group probably messaged in their talks and said to call it that nonsense rebuttal.

Clearly quite a few of them who have infested this forum want to spend their time trying to troll me.

His initial response which he did respond to very quickly never mention Head Numismatist ect. Further more David Hall wasn't the head numismatist, he was the President of CLCT not PCGS.

These facts really just lead to either it was racist, or that is a very low intelligence person saying a lot of things they feel without having actual knowledge of what they are saying.

Just wanted to clarify I don't need a way out for all these big fishes in a tiny puddle, you just can't have intellectual or intelligent conversations with a brick wall

 

Plus the owner want $32000, which is $4000 more than the going rate for a nice AU-50. Buying this coin just to submit it through the PCGS guarantee might mean up to a $20000 loss. Not a risk worth taking

 

It was just a challenge at Baseball to see if he would support PCGS’s opinion even if it was incorrect. He tried to discredit all opinions that were not PCGS (typical), but he never said he agreed with the grade.

 

Okay @Lehigh96 , I think both of us know that I have handled several lower-grade capped bust quarters, and I know circulated early US silver well. PCGS saw this coin in-hand and gave their grade. Do you want to go ahead and support them?

In case you miss it the first time, take a gander at 25 C

 

I'll bet someone could find example after example of this sort of thing. Whether it be overgrade coins or straight graded damage.
This Mexican standoff will never end.

I hope that wasnt another racist comment

 

My bad.
I dont study the hierarchy over there, nor do i idolize and worship them like you do

BTW- that CLCT stock went down, Bummer

 

Thank you !! !!!

 

That coin should grade Fine details scratched or graffiti. I’m not certain what your point is though? I don’t defend the TPGs all the time, but I also don’t have a crusade to post examples of coins I don’t own. Everybody know they make mistakes and as we have seen, they pay up for those mistakes. How do you think this one would do under appearance review?

 

Mechanical Error and no payout.
This would be so “obvious” that PCGS would only fix the label and not admit any fault.

In Hall’s own words:
“A mechanical error is an obvious error. Examples: a clearly mint state frosty surface coin in a proof holder, a 1936 dated coin in a holder that said 1935, a Boone commem in a Texas commem holder, a flat as a pancake band dime in a FB holder, etc. The obvious mechanical error can sometimes be a grade. For example, in 1986 we had a dispute with a dealer because he purchased a MS65 1893-O dollar. The problem was the coin was a bag marked to death MS60 that no one in his right mind would ever consider even MS63 let alone MS65. The guiding concept with mechanical errors is common sense.”

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/2070758#Comment_2070758

 

There is nothing that you could say to educate anyone, If your intention is to correct, then your posts are futile.
Pleeeaaase do as you say, I don't see anyone here besides Lehigh that agrees with you. And if he ever left, you would be all alone. This mentality you try to impose is in fact what most of us call a follower, and for you to think that we should believe this nonsense, just because you said it, is wasted breath on your part.

Great visual, I can see him fondling the coin right now.
Damage on the surfaces and did someone try to clean this with a screw driver? AU50? Is PCGS out of their mind?

99% of the time it's the person with the low intelligence that pulls the racism card. And I see that it is no different in this instance.

You were crying that everyone was picking on you last time I was here. What changed? Did Lehighs posts dry up your tears?
That's pretty silly of me, How can you boast about the TPG's prowess if you can't see the keyboard and monitor?

Not unless baseball can somehow figure out that the TPG's are a good tool to use, but they aren't the only tool in the tool box.

 

This is not a mechanical error. The coin is properly attributed and graded properly if it didn’t have damage. The damage while obvious is in a location that it would be easy to miss, and apparently was.

The example of the MS65 vs MS60 is not an apples to apples. It’s really easy to type a “0” instead of a “5”. How do you accidentally type F12 instead of F Details.

PCGS would want to get this coin out of their plastic as soon as possible. Your anti TPG bias is showing here.

 

In other news-
Ohio State - 34
Michigan - 19
3:53 - 3rd Quarter

Edit-
Ohio State - 41
Michigan - 19
3:10 3rd Quarter

Go Bucks Michigan Sucks