Featured The Slabbed (NGC/PCGS) AT-QT (Artificial/Questionable Toning) Thread

Can we hear the story On the Morgan now?

 

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I bought it from a We Buy Gold shop with 2 other 1885 O Morgans which were similarly toned. (The dealer charged me $17 each because they were “stained”.) They were brought in wrapped in paper with several other coins. This Morgan happened to be up against a quarter, while another had a half-dollar crescents and a dollar crescent. The third had toning indicative of being in contact with paper. This is 100% natural toning.

 

I give up, which coin are we on right now?

The Toning Premium thread runs like clockwork, almost never see a coin posted out of turn. It is like we are on a different forum.

 

1890 IHC looks NT to me.

 

I won't post again. FWIW, I know that coin guys like order and control, but geez... I made the assumption I could post a "points" coin because the Morgan didn't count according to your rules. Anyway, I'm sorry I upset you and I failed to follow your rules.

 

I'm not upset, but when more than one coin is posted at the same time, it becomes very confusing. And although the Morgan didn't count, we still need to allot time for people to react to that coin. At this point we are going to move onto your coin since Type wrapped up the story on his Morgan, but I promise you that people are going to be giving their opinion of that Morgan while your coin is the active coin.

Please understand that I want people to participate, but I also don't want people to "peace out" because they get frustrated by the confusion.

As for your IHC, I don't see anything that would make me think the toning is artificial. I've seen that violet color on IHCs and Lincolns before and although it is more vibrant than normal and has wide coverage on the surfaces, it still looks very natural to me.

Put me down for NT/MA.

 

Looks NT to me.

 

The IHC looks NT to me, especially since I have some through the entire 1890's that are just like it. If one goes AT, then they're all goin' down.

 

The IHC is absolutely AT. That blue and purple color comes from treatment with MS-70. While many people like the look, I find it off-putting and avoid it.

 

When you have free time give this a read: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/977997/the-sun-and-the-blue-toned-rooster/p1

You'll leave the thread confused and not sure what to believe but it will get you thinking. Rick Snow is adamant on his side of things and that's hard to completely dismiss with his experience and reputation.

 

Rick Snow is extremely knowledgeable - but you have to remember that, as a dealer, he also has an agenda.

I've been following this topic for a decade or so now. I remember when the first guy said that he'd been treating coins to make the blue copper. I remember when PCGS stopped certifying blue copper. I remember the debate about it, and I remember when PCGS recanted and started certifying it again. I remember the threads that Rick references, where collectors did some experiments. I remember some of them being quite convincing, and some of them leaving doubt.

I, however, firmly believe that the look of the IHC posted in this thread is characteristic of MS-70 treatment. Not all blue copper is treated - but this one is.

 

Before I go off to read the thread mentioned above, I have an honest question.

How do you dip an entire coin but end up with elevation toning? Wouldn't the entire surface be affected equally?

Maybe the answer is over on that thread.

 

1885-O Morgan: NT

1890 IHC: NT

 

As a counterpoint to Rick's thread above, I present to you one of those collector's experiments, fully documented with pictures, showing the transformation to blue/purple: https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topi...-coins-with-ms-70-last-night-see-the-results/

 

Two basic reasons: MS-70 is often applied with a Q-tip instead of submerging the coin. And, the MS-70 colors more often affect the patinated areas (the brown areas), and leave the red surfaces alone. See the thread I linked directly above for picture examples.

 

I am at NT/MA on the 85'O

Even though the Indian cent colors have been deemed MA by the major TPG's I agree that it has been treated to get those colors.
AT/QC

 

Summary of results:
-----------------------

Coin 1 - Clad Dime (pg.1) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 2 - Franklin (pg. 1) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 3 - CBH (pg. 4) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 4 - Silv PR Ike (pg. 5) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 5 - Peace Dollar (pg. 7) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 6 - Ohio Silv PR 25c (pg. 8) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 11 (AT/QC)
Coin 7 - 1964 MS 25c (pg. 9) - 11 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 8 - 1974 Clad PR 25c (pg. 11) - 4 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 9 - 85-O Morgan (pg. 12) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC) *no points*
-----------------------

NT/MA: 4 total
AT/QC: 5 total

-----------------------
Points:

ddddd - 3
Lehigh96 - 1
TheFinn - 1

 

I'm calling the Morgan and we'll continue with @C-B-D 's IHC through tomorrow (11/21/18)

 

So far for the IHC we have
@SlipperySocks NT
@EyeAppealingCoins NT
@Lehigh96 NT
@Johndoe2000$ NT
@RonSanderson NT
@physics-fan3.14 AT
@jtlee321 NT
@Pickin and Grinin AT

And I'll go QC

....I know that these have been MA for a while and many look nice, but I'm leaning towards the MS70 effect being a questionable method to help produce the toning...plus this particular example looks a bit more off than usual

 

Most MS70ed coins I have seen don't have that much red left. The solid blue/electric blue or purples ones are the ones that scream AT to me.