PCGS Stumbles Badly On CAM Attribution

OK—this makes sense (though why the FG that is CLOSE to the monument is called “wide” instead of “close” is a new puzzle. Finally, does DCAM mean “deep cameo” after all or 9is it another variant of the AMERICA set? Many thanks!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

heavycam.monstervam, posted: "Here we go again

Another one of these so called mechanical errors?? Is that really what we have here, or is it that PCGS does not like to own up to their mistakes?? I could easily see where someone could mistake this for the actual variety. Whether that be a dealer, a collector, or a "so-called" expert at PCGS. Ive looked at tons of A&Ms on the 1992 Lincolns in my pocket change. Ive got 20-20 perfect vision and its very hard to tell with naked eye which one it is. Ive had some that were strike doubled and i thought i even scored the big one. I could very easily see PCGS screwing the pooch here, since were talking a difference of a nanometer in placement between the letters.
I would still make a phone call to the -
Phony Cert Grading Service.
Ofcourse they wont own up to a mistake, but it would atleast give me some satisfaction to debate it over the telephone with them."

Yes, here we go again. Another nonsense discussion.

OBVIOUSLY, PCGS MADE A MISTAKE! News, flash...it happens all the time. Most of ours are caught before they leave the building. Whomever designed our system screwed up big time for many date by putting the rare and valuable version as the first choice by the person entering the coin. Example: 1842-O 25c, most of the time when these coins get to the grading room they were entered as the Sm. "O" variety! That's a thousand dollar + difference for most grades. That's covered by a mechanical error. Calling a coin a MS when it is a more common and less expensive Proof is COMPLETLY DIFFERENT! We had to make good on that one.

A numismatist (including me) should catch this. Just as a blind beggar should know the difference between a Close "AM" or Wide "AM!" TPGS's are your friend but they cannot protect anyone from IGNORANCE or a mistake made by a professional!

ddddd, posted: "I believe CAM is also a common way to refer to the Close AM and WAM for Wide AM.

Please let us know who the "genius" is that took a decades old abbreviation "CAM" and applied it to something totally unrelated? This kind of uninformed foolishness causes nothing but problems. It is not in Cherrypicker's section on the "AMs."


NPCoin, posted: "Don't worry...it still means cameo! That's why I said I prefer the moniker ClAM so that there is no mistaking it. With so many DCAM modern coins, I'm not even sure many of these younger ones here have even heard of a "Cameo" coin before. And I'll guarantee that 99.9% of the young and old have never heard of "CIAM" either.

ddddd, posted: "It seemed like most saw what the mistake was and it was pointed out by others too. Anyways I’m not sure why “the crowd” mattered much to you. Or at the very least why you felt it was more important than commenting on the coin (or adding something about the coin along with your comment...there wasn’t anything wrong with it, but by itself it didn’t come off looking too good on your part.

I agree with Fred and his obviously comment. Yes, all of you can tell the coin is mislabeled. Now can we move on from four pages of "expert" opinion. All that remains is to see how PCGS handles this. If it were me, I'd RETURN THE COIN to the seller for a refund and let them take care of the situation. Then, I'd go on the Internet an learn the difference between the two varieties so I WOULD NOT make the same mistake again. Buy the coin and not the label. That way only you are responsible for any mistakes. ask for the coin back to correct the label

Conder101, posted: "You were correct DCAM does stand for Deep Cameo. On the other hand CAM can stand for either Cameo, or Close AM. Contest of usage tell you which one it means."

Please tell me what " Johnny-come-lately PENNY collector," where, and when "this" entered the numismatic lexicon. What nonsense! PCGS better make some changes to their definition of CAM to suit the . I suspect some fool on a coin board such as Coin Community came up with this idiotic usage.

 

Close AM and Wide AM neither have, nor need to have, official abbreviations. It's not a thing. You just say "Close AM" or "Wide AM".

CAM doesn't mean anything other than cameo.

 

Sounds like a good solution to me.

It probably cam about shortly after the first 1998 Close AM cents were discovered which I think was around 2002. It was the result of typical lazyness short hand where close AM became Close AM and then CAM. I don't think it was a conscious choice to use an existing abbreviation to mean a second thing as much as an obvious shorthand that just happened to be the same as an abbreviation that had a different meaning.

 

No CLAM, No CAM...Just call it a CLOSE AM and forget about all this PREPPY mumbo Jumbo...please!

 

Oops

 

Look again.
Isn’t that what the label says?

 

Not making a mistake again doesn't cover the loss of money. (taken, misinformed or not) Either way, The buyer should be compensated.
As a business owner, taking a loss hurts. It's the best way for management to get a handle on the situation. And out of due respect, I would offer it to them. And let them make the decision.

 

Conder101, posted: "Sounds like a good solution to me.
It probably came about shortly after the first 1998 Close AM cents were discovered which I think was around 2002. It was the result of typical lazyness short hand where close AM became Close AM and then CAM. I don't think it was a conscious choice to use an existing abbreviation to mean a second thing as much as an obvious shorthand that just happened to be the same as an abbreviation that had a different meaning."

Thanks for your comment. I disagree. All kinds of "new guys" enter numismatics daily. We don't need them making up things for "new discoveries" before they learn the territory. I'll admit I am very isolated but I would hope I would have seen/heard "CAM" mistakenly used for "Close AM" somewhere since 2002! I would have ridiculed the user unmercifully.

Pickin and Grinin, posted: "Not making a mistake again doesn't cover the loss of money. (taken, misinformed or not) Either way, The buyer should be compensated.
As a business owner, taking a loss hurts. It's the best way for management to get a handle on the situation. And out of due respect, I would offer it to them. And let them make the decision."

Here is the thing. In an ideal world full of happiness and sweets there would be no "label errors." Any coins slabbed with a mistake would be the responsibility of the TPGS. Ideally, TPGS's give us some sort of protection.

We don't live in an ideal world. What happens is up to the TPGS, what we think does not matter.

 

I agree 100%

Only in a lawless society is this true. However, we live in a structured, law-driven society. That is why I suggested the OP let the issue follow the chain of title back to its origins. Failing this, the OPs recourse would be to deal directly with the TPG. In any case, the TPG will ultimately be the responsible party.

True, it is up to the TPGs how they choose to resolve this matter. However, they do not make the rules (laws)...they are absolutely bound by them. Personally, I believe that they would take just action, in this and other cases, if it were presented to them accurately and in a professional manner.

Although the TPGs published policy on this matter states that this error is not covered, that does not prohibit them from making a business decision that would rectify this situation. Like the rest of us, they can just chalk it up to "lesson learned"!

I would like to eventually hear what the OP had decided to do with the situation and of the outcome. But, that will likely take some time.

 

NPCoin, posted: "I agree 100%. Only in a lawless society is this true. However, we live in a structured, law-driven society."

Where have you been living the last few years. No politics.

Guess the OP should sue the TPGS.

"That is why I suggested the OP let the issue follow the chain of title back to its origins. Failing this, the OPs recourse would be to deal directly with the TPG. In any case, the TPG will ultimately be the responsible party.

True, it is up to the TPGs how they choose to resolve this matter. However, they do not make the rules (laws)...they are absolutely bound by them. Personally, I believe that they would take just action, in this and other cases, if it were presented to them accurately and in a professional manner.

Although the TPGs published policy on this matter states that this error is not covered, that does not prohibit them from making a business decision that would rectify this situation. Like the rest of us, they can just chalk it up to "lesson learned"!

I would like to eventually hear what the OP had decided to do with the situation and of the outcome. But, that will likely take some time."

IMO, the ONLY chance the OP has for a good outcome is to post this on the PCGS Forum and ask members what he should do. PCGS has been very good about taking care of these things when posted.

 

No argument from me on that.

You must be pretty isolated because it has been commonly used for years. How about an opinion from some of the rest of you folks? Am I right? Have people been using CAM as a shorthand for Close AM for years?

 

Yes, people have been using CAM as a moniker for quite a while now. Here's a few examples of its use on various sites:

Error-Ref
ErrorVariety.com (which goes way back)
CONECA Forum going as far back as 2011

But, I prefer ClAM (like at Lincoln Cent Resource)

The use of "CAM" has slowly built momentum over the (10 or more) years of its usage.

 

Well, Thanks for the update. Look for an article about this foolishness! However, just like a CANCER that has crept into the body for decades , it may be too late to "save" the original definition of CAM (the patient). I prefer Comical A [Self EDIT) Mistakes by knowledgeable numismatists (Error Ref) who should know better!