Fun new arrival: 1803 Draped Bust Half, O-104 Small 3

First, you are the only one besides PCGS who has seen the coin, so everyone else's opinion of the surfaces don't matter.

Second, if you don't like the value in the holder, crack it out, and sell it raw. Surely you can recoup your lowball purchase price and failed grading fee.

Lastly, this is another example of you slamming PCGS because their grade differs from yours. Have you bothered to contact them about why the coin graded "altered surfaces"?

 

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@C-B-D has seen this coin in-hand. He’s a better grader than I am.

 

Okay, but he hasn’t shared his opinion of the coin in this thread.

 

That’s why I tagged him

 

I'm here. The only thing I could see was that the coin was "tidied up," which is no big deal. I do it all the time. What I mean is that someone took the time to acetone it and take a thorn or toothpick to remove dirt from around the devices. A coin this old should be a little grimy, but this one is super "clean." I graded it VF25. The graders saw something to give them pause. Sometimes it's just a feeling and they have to err on the side of caution. On another day, the coin may get a pass.

 

Additionally, PCGS customer service does not provide a breakdown of why a coin did not grade. There is no one you can call or email to get an explanation. Who can blame them? They detail grade thousands of coins a month. The PR skills that would require.... wow.

 

Most details grades don’t need an explanation, but altered surfaces encompasses a lot of things. It really wouldn’t be that tough.

CAC will discuss why the coin doesn’t sticker, maybe he should send the coin to CAC and if it stickers, they will explain why it has altered surfaces. If it doesn’t have altered surfaces, it will get a gold sticker.

 

They sticker “details” coins?

 

I was kidding, I don’t think they actually sticker the coin, but they might give you an insight into the grade if you send it to them.

 

Easier to take it to a show. Sometimes graders make themselves available. @Insider is always available.

 

I’m going to disagree with you there. He, like most dealers I’ve interacted with, only seems to be able to identify cleaned coins when purchasing them, and of course, the TPGs are always wrong when both say a coin is cleaned. Like him, I am sure you will crack it out and sell it as problem free to someone who believes you to know more about coins than they do. I think you should pause for a moment and ask yourself if maybe you shouldn’t try learning more about grading before getting on and blasting the TPGs. I am not an expert. I believe the both of you know more about grading than I do, but just because two people think the TPGs are wrong, doesn’t necessarily mean they are...

 

I’ll chime in. I agree that it looks to have had an old cleaning or new tidying, but market acceptable. The bigger issue that stands out to me is those three ticks below Liberty’s hair bow. They aren’t graffiti, they aren’t scratches exactly, or what I would call gouges... but they’re noticeable and appear deliberate in a row of three like that IMO. Altered surfaces would be an apt description.

I also think there’s nothing wrong with cracking and selling it raw at VF- it’s still a great coin and the line of details on one like this is pretty fine. Speaking of fine, I think a F15 straight grade would have been appropriate here, but net grading doesn’t bother me in circumstances like this. I know not everyone feel the same.

 

We’re gonna have to disagree here big time. Cracking out problem coins to sell raw problem free is one of the reasons why the TPGS exist to protect buyers.

 

I get very frustrated every time I hear a seller saying they're going to crack it out because there's no way the TPGs got it right...

 

High value coins are worth a resubmission if someone believes that, even if it’s not worth the PCGS/NGC fee ICG has extremely reasonable fees for a different professional opinion. It’s just like when someone says it’s a lock to upgrade, well get it upgraded first then I’ll pay that price

 

I have my own little set of rules for coins like this.

If I'm face to face with the dealer and the coin, it's my problem if I mess up.

If I buy it from images, I have to know the dealer and that he will take it back if I can't live with it. If I keep the coin and send it in for grading, it's my problem as long as it's genuine. If it's fake, I expect the dealer to step up and take care of the problem.

As a collector, I can live with a nice 200 year old coin coming back in a problem holder. I liked the coin when I bought it. It's still the same coin. At least it's in a holder to help protect the coin. As a dealer it would suck to have it come back as a problem. Sure puts a damper on it bringing a strong price.

Going back to the OP coin. I still like it based on the images. Those that have actually held the coin have better opinions.

 

I like your set of rules.

 

Please explain how these two got straight grades:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/392148225369

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/223103650848

Clearly altered surfaces and scratches to boot. Again, inconsistency with the TPGs.

 

I would too if I were a dealer and someone’s rules basically said as long as I sold him a genuine coin, I’m absolved of any guilt (even if I crack out a coin and lie about it being problem free).

 

This could very well go on forever. Coins that shouldn't get slabbed, get slabbed every day. And coins that should get a pass get detailed every day.