I always wanted this coin - #47

Friday I spent over 9 hours in a vanpool bus so I could spend 5 hours at the Baltimore coin show. It was a miserable rainy day but the show made it all worthwhile. I returned with 11 coins of which one has already been consigned to my trade stock. Of the ten, I have trouble assigning rank but this one is a strong candidate for the top.

I always wanted this dupondius of Germanicus but nice ones are always out of my price bracket. Corroded ones are common and ugly. inding one in the middle has been difficult. This one has several faults that will bother some more than others but the one I want to discuss is the number 47 painted on the obverse. I am sure I could remove it but I won't. There was a time when political correctness allowed many things that are considered evil today. One of these seems trivial now but may keep some people from enjoying the coin. Many paint numbered coins were part of small museum collections but I am sure there were others belonging to individuals. I would love to know who painted 47 on this coin. What college, what museum what gentleman of a century ago did this? What was coin 46 and how many other numbers were there? How many still bear their numbers? Was it a hoard or a collection? I have been in the hobby for fifty years and do not recall knowing anyone who thought this was an acceptable practice. Was this done in 1950 or 1850? Comments welcome. I am sure some of you have coins of this type honoring the return of two of the standards lost to the Germans by Varus at the Teutoberg Forest. The coins were issued by Germanicus' son Caligula long after the event. Rome might have been a different place had Germanicus lived to succeed Tiberius rather than Caligula. We can never know. Post any coins you have with numbers of this type.

My other one is 18 or 81 in red paint on a Republican fourree. I know no more about it than the new coin. They are obviously different collections.

 

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The Germanicus is fantastic, and the 47 is a plus. Way to hit the sweet spot on affordability. I'm sure many would have paid a lot more than you did (including me)!

I wonder if you will eventually be able to match the style of the painting to a provenance. Here's one that sold in a Triskeles auction last year that's a bit similar:

 

Love the first picture; now I know where the Italians got the imagery for their 10 and 20 Lire silver coins minted in the 1920s!

 

To my personal collector's eye, I see no faults in your new Germanicus dupondius, Doug. I really love it! And the number is so fascinating!

I don't have a coin with any paint or numbering to add, so here's my only Germanicus, an As struck under his son also, 40-41 AD:

 

I would much rather have a painted number than a coin 'improved' by smoothing or tooling. Nice addition @dougsmit.

 

Someone long before I acquired this denarius of Julia Domna put a 3011 in red ink in the exergue:


Julia Domna, AD 193-217, under Caracalla.
Roman AR denarius, 3.1 g, 20 mm.
Rome, AD 213.
Obv: IVLIA PIA FELIX AVG, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
Rev: VESTA, Vesta standing left, holding Palladium and scepter.
Refs: RIC 390; BMCRE 29030; Cohen/RSC 230; Hill 1340; CRE 417.

 

Nice denarius! But I see 304 myself...

 

I wouldn't paint collection numbers on my own coins but would sure love to have one which had such marks applied long ago. Fantastic coin, Doug!

Here's a #48 from CNG's archives. I wonder if it could be from the same hand? The paint is grossly the same but the number style looks more refined. Maybe you could nose around for more information based on this pedigree. It's a long shot but you never know .



Sale: CNG 76, Lot: 1463. Estimate $750.
Closing Date: Wednesday, 12 September 2007.
Sold For $950. This amount does not include the buyer’s fee.

Hadrian. AD 117-138. Æ Sestertius (30.09 g, 6h). Rome mint. Struck circa AD 134-138. Laureate bust right, slight drapery / Felicitas standing left, holding branch and long caduceus. RIC II 750; Banti 323. Good VF, brown patina, areas of minor roughness, small white collection number painted below bust.

From the Alain Lagrange Collection. Ex Classical Numismatic Group 45 (18 March 1998), lot 2055.

 

A neat coin Doug, hopefully, more info comes from someone regarding the numbering.

 

What an excellent coin, Doug, painted #47 and all.

My Julian siliqua didn't receive such neat treatment. I see 238 scrawled in black upside down on the reverse.



And, more indelible, 7 stamped on the obverse of this Sev Alex sestertius.

 

Fantastic new edition of an extremely popular Roman general that ALMOST wore the purple...who's massively popular (and possibly deranged) son would later rule. And like father like son, they both would die at the hands of their fellow Romans.
Man, I wish I had something to add to the mystery. I'll follow this thread till the bitter end until someone solve this...


That being said, I've always been a bit perplexed by this Marc Antony. It's listed as a bankers mark. But why would an ancient banker slap a "100" or "001" instead of the obligatory letter?

(Granted the # is the coolest part of this near slated legionary)

 

Ancient Coins - FAUSTINA - DUPONDIUS - MATRI - MAGNAE - OLD FRENCH COLLECTION -
A/ FAVSTINA - AVGVSTA
R/ MATRI - MAGNAE// SC .
11.41 g ; 24mm
Faustina II. (161-176 AD). AE As R/ Cybele between two lions. SCARCE
Ancient Coins - Faustina II. (161-176 AD). AE As R/ Cybele between two lions. SCARCE (as a dupondius?)
Like Doug wonders what 46 was I wonder what number one was?

 

Mine is a bit more on the ugly and corroded end of the scale, but it is a beauty to me!



Germanicus. Æ Dupondius Struck under Gaius (Caligula), AD 37-41.


O: GERMANICVS/CAESAR in two lines above, Germanicus standing right in chariot, R: SIGNIS RECEPT/DEVICTIS GERM/S C in three lines across field, Germanicus, bareheaded, wearing cuirass and short tunic, holding aquila in left hand. RIC I 57 (Gaius); BMCRE 93-100 (Caligula); BN 140-51 (Caligula). Rome mint. 28 mm. 12.2 gm.

 

Nice catch, Doug. The Germanicus is very nice indeed, but I have a soft spot for Marsyas on the fourree.

 

I've seen several CNG listings of ancient coins with a Renaissance counterstamp of an eagle, that has been interpreted as marking the coin as part of the Gonzaga family collection:
https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=146920

 

Bother interesting coins @dougsmit . I really like the look of the dupondius.

 

I've always loved that Germanicus type. Recently I upgraded my "almost slug" to this one. Still has its issues but it's all there



As for painted numbers I love them!


Mark Antony Quinarius

III VIR R P C
Diademed and veiled head of Concordia right

M ANTON C CAESAR
Two hands clasped round caduceus

Mint moving with Octavian in Gaul
39 BC

1.57g

Crawford 529/4b. Sydenham 1195. Sear, Imperators 304

From a very old collection
Museum number 175 on obverse.
Could use some more cleaning but I don't want to loose the number.

And then this more aggressive "number" which I have yet to figure out!



Never seen anything else quite like it. IIZ engraved by hand into the reverse. No idea what it means.

 

I have an uncirculated Germanicus coin. one of the prides of my collection. I wont post it because by keeping it uncirculated , it stays rare and impossible to make a copy of.

 

that's a nice one Doug..i've wanted one a long time, but am cautious because it is one that's heavily counterfeited...

 

Fascinating Germanicus @dougsmit!

I won this coin from Naville. I think I was the only one who bid on it. I assumed the lack of interest in the coin was due to the numbers, but I feel that they add interest and a bit of mystery.

This coin has a different number on the obverse than the reverse. The number 560 on the reverse must be an inventory number. Why the number 5 on the obverse?

Septimius Severus. AR denarius, Rome, 202 CE; 18mm, 3.18g, 12h. BMCRE 381–2, Hill 549 (R), RIC 182, RSC 291. Obv: SEVERVS – PIVS AVG; head laureate r. Rx: LIB AVG III P M – TR P X COS III P P; Liberalitas standing l., holding coin counter and cornucopia. Rare; 9 in Reka Devnia. VF.