Is ICG really as bad as many people say?

There's nothing so called about it. The only so called experts I can see are forum experts

How many 1700 gold pieces have you authenticated and graded, how about Type?. It surely must be similar to the number real professionals have since you guys know better?

Yes it really is, that's the entire point of me pointing it out. A lot of ego grading goes on on this forum.

 

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Yeah, no. I am not saying that I am better than the graders at the TPGs. I am only saying that PCGS is not the infallible perfection that many people believe. Nor is NGC. And I provided evidence to support that claim.

95% of the time, my grade is within one adjacent grade level (eg VF-30/35, MS-64/5) of the TPGs. The difference is just a matter of opinion. But when the difference is 10 points or more, or a coin with obvious damage gets a pass, or a circulated coin is called uncirculated, that is inexcusable. That’s the 5%.

 

You obviously graduated from the EW school of grading. Wait till the grade posts and undeniable defend it as if it's gospel. That's OK if you trust their opinion. But you pose yourself as a sheep, and one who can't make a decision for themselves.

 

Stockpile? 2 images and ONE DOES NOT COUNT!

All TPGS make mistakes. Overtime, due to gradflation, most "mistakes" were being too conservative when a coin is viewd a decade later.

Tha Damaged POS $2 1/2 is a perfect example of "Commercial" BS grading. So sad and so wrong and so what. Out of a million coins you posted a one "poster child" of complete grading ignorance to most of us.

As for the other coin. Get used to it. While a grading guide and old timers may agree this coin is overgraded. IMO, any major TPGS in the countery would slab is coin as a Fine.

I rate your post as 50% correct. That is probable a decent rate for a typical collector taking his first grading class.

 

In my experience, none of the TPGs do a good enough job on coins struck on a screw press, and the mechanical clones struck after 1836 have little intereste for me.

There is no substitute for learning to grade for yourself. I know “why” they grade worn coins as MS, I just don’t agree that they should.

I am of the “grade does NOT equal price” school of thought. TPGs are of the complete opposite school where Price determines Grade. I know I’m old school, but to me the TPG approach is totally bass-ackwards. There is more than grade that goes into figuring out what a coin is worth.

 

For the 2nd coin, I believe you missed the multiple scratches (graffiti?) all over the “25” on the reverse.

 

Take a look at the 25C

Those were just the two of the most blatant examples.

 

After reading some of the lively discussions in this thread I want to ask some questions about the typical grader at the TPGs.

What is the average years of experience of a grader?

With the large numbers of coins graded each year are the more experienced graders assigned to the more valuable coins?

What's the employee retention rate? I assume it's a tedious, high pressure job.

 

My only real issue with ICG is its reputation. I do a lot of wheeling and dealing while upgrading my type set and having to listen to dealers telling me that XF coins are VF, etc. when they are clearly not JUST because they are in an ICG slab is annoying. Grading wise on classic stuff they don’t seem any less accurate than the others to me.

 

Get used to it. You know they’re wrong, so don’t sell it to them. Maybe try to corner them with photograde or similar logic.

Sometimes the coins are worth more raw than in the holders they are in.

 

Yeah, I just eBay them if that happens but it’s a shame to crack a perfectly good protective holder with an accurate grade. Maybe as time goes on they’ll lose the stigma.

 

There are some folks in this thread trying to act as if they actually have a clue about the grading services. They didn't live it but want others to believe the garbage they post.

 

I’m not sure if that is directed at me- my personal with experience ICG is that it’s fairly accurate on circulated classic coins. The 66/67 line on Morgans with them seems off to me and from what I recall there were some serious issues with overgraded moderns at one point, but I don’t collect them.

I specifically collect mostly crusty circulated classic stuff so that mileage is going to be different than others... I definitely don’t claim to know every aspect of the history of the grading services, just sharing my .02 on the stuff in my wheelhouse. Seems fine for that to me.

 

I have only purchased about a dozen grade coins . I got those in an auction for alot less then it would have cost to get them graded at one of the grading companies. I will not but graded coins only because I find that it is a way to pump the prices out of perspective on most coins. It is a maybe good for those that trust in what they do , and the chances of getting a fake is minimal . I read all the comments by the members, and find that reading the thread there are many opinions to think about. I have been very pleased buying ungraded coins , and think that the business of grading is more for the high dollar aspect, then any of the other reasons. Thank you . Dillan

 

I owe Type a big I'm wrong. Posted in haste and never saw the damage. The coin is another POS that should NEVER BE STRAIGHT GRADED - EVER. AFAIK, TPGS were to protect the public and this does not. I missed the damage but three professionals DID NOT so I don't give them any slack.

PS If the "line" for damaged coins does not exist anymore, we're all in trouble!
.

 

I understand where you're coming from and I agree it's annoying to see people question the coin just because of the holder (without even looking at the coin). I would say the real issue here is the dealers and those who parrot them.

 

And you Sir, were the final grader.........

 

Some of those types will do that no matter what holder they're in. Try selling them back something you bought from them a while ago that they likely wouldn't remember, see if they talk down their former inventory trying to get it cheaper

 

I'm appreciating, and agreeing with your improved arguments!
Please continue your Fine efforts (an improvement from very-good), and hoping for future return posts.

JMHO

 

CircCam, posted: "My only real issue with ICG is its reputation. I do a lot of wheeling and dealing while upgrading my type set and having to listen to dealers telling me that XF coins are VF, etc. when they are clearly not JUST because they are in an ICG slab is annoying. Grading wise on classic stuff they don’t seem any less accurate than the others to me."

If all of you could sit behind the ICG table at a coin show, you would start to believe that 70% of the small time professional dealers selling coins at local shows don't know much about grading or authentication. All many of them can do is open a gray sheet to buy or sell a slab. It is appalling!

wxcoin, posted: "After reading some of the lively discussions in this thread I want to ask some questions about the typical grader at the TPGs.:

I'll try to answer some of this from only what I know from working at several different services. Some of this may not apply to all of the major services.

1. What is the average years of experience of a grader?

This cannot be answered reliably as new graders are put into the "pipeline." While they can grade (many have taken ANA seminars, worked in shops and passed a grading test period at the TPGS) they have ZERO actual experience. At the other end of the scale, there are long-time employees with decades of experience. Many of these folks were professional dealers at one time.

2. With the large numbers of coins graded each year are the more experienced graders assigned to the more valuable coins?

Yes, of course. With major coins the owners of the TPGS see everything. At one service I worked for, the boss and I were working late after everyone had left. He was grading a "deal." I suggested he go home and let me finish it and he said no, the grades had to be "right."

3. What's the employee retention rate? I assume it's a tedious, high pressure job.

Yes, yes, and sometimes. It has its perks but it can be very boring and tedious for the new guys and the folks grading modern coins all day. It also depends on what TPGS you work for. There is usually less pressure outside of the top two.