100% noob looking for advice

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Patlal, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Patlal

    Patlal New Member

    I inherited some coins. My grandfather past away 20 years ago and he left me coins and notes.

    I have since looked into "investment coins" from the Canadian Mint. I was immediately hooked. I bought a few coins from the RCM.

    I asked a guy at my local coin shop if I could make money on day with the commemoratives. He said yeah, in 30 years... That's good. I like long term investments. Problem was we got talking about how he buys commemorative coins for half the price the Mint sells them...

    Am I ever gonna make money with commemorative coins?

    If so, where do I go to sell in the future?

    Who the hell would buy a coin for more than what I bought it for if the silver/gold isn't even worth the weight of the coin?

    If I spend 5000$ in commemorative coins, what return on investment should I expect 30 years down the road?

    Would I ever be able to make 20000$ with these things?

    Seriously, guys. Total noob here... Business minded total noob... So now I'm just worried that I'm going to get hooked on a really expensive and pointless addiction.
     
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  3. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Coins aren't an investment they are a hobby. Even in 30 years they could be worth the same or less than what you bought them at.

    What coins did your Grandfather leave you?
     
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  4. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    This. This. This.
     
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  5. LakeEffect

    LakeEffect Average Circulated Supporter

    I've got many lovely proof silver dollars I bought from the RCM in the 1980's and 90's that now retail for half of what I paid for them. Sorry, but what is posted above is true.
     
  6. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Most proof sets bought from the US Government.
     
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  7. Phil Ham

    Phil Ham Hamster

    I will say that it is a fun hobby. You won't make money but you'll learn a lot about coins, history, and the collecting community. You'll spend more money on other hobbies with less to show for it at the end of the day.
     
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  8. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    When you buy a brand new coin directly from the Mint (US, Canada, etc) you are paying not only for the metal, but also the design and engineering process.

    It's just like buying a car. What happens when you buy a car and drive it off the lot?

    The value of it drops.

    No one wants to pay in the secondary market for the design and engineering process. Thus, as it exchanges hands the valuation may drop. I say may, because what also may happen is that there may be a spike in the secondary market for a short time and then prices may drop. Then there may be certain rarities which may also create demand. But long term if it's value after 8 years is stagnant or downwards I would think the "investment" should be removed unless you think it's metal price will increase. Although as years go past and inflation sets in it's price may go up. Although in times of financial stress it's value (due to lack of demand) may crumble.

    If you purchase really rare coins (such as from when Canada/US first became a nation those coins I would consider an investment. But, keep in mind, in times of country/global financial turmoil do not expect much from those investments. You have to wait for the "economic good times" and hope that coin collecting increases in popularity.

    In other words. Do you homework. Study the history and prices of coins. Then consider that most other financial (stock market) investments will make a coin investment look foolish over that long period of time.

    (1) So if you invest $5k in modern commemoratives what will it's valuation be in 30 years?
    (a) if you are lucky $5 assuming a good amount of inflation.
    (b) in current dollars maybe $3-4000 in a good economy with relatively stagant PM prices.
    (c) in current dollars maybe $3-4000 in stagnant economy with relatively high spot prices.

    And if it's a "true" investment, don't forget to reduce any capital gains by the taxation rate.

    (2) will you ever be able to make $20k on them?
    (a) If you quickly learn to FLIP certain coins that may be possible to double your money on some coins. But that is Short Term, not Long Term.
    (b) If for some reason PMs skyrockets beyond belief, who knows. After all, when the zombies attack ... well, who'll want to buy coins anyways?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  9. Dillan

    Dillan The sky is the limit !

    If you purchase anything from the RCM, make sure it is coins that have a very low mintage. I am talking under 30k . These may have the best chance of increasing in value by creating demand for these products. Just a thought you may want to think about . Dillan
     
  10. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    I have been collecting almost fifty years. Some coins I purchased way back when are considerably more valuable. Some are considerably less in value. Thing is, I couldn't have in my wildest dreams considered the current direction of this hobby all those years ago. And who knows what will be the hot ticket for next generations collectors? I would advise to never collect as an investment vehicle. I see no wrong in collecting as a way to store wealth. However, unless you are quite seasoned, I would not advise collecting to create wealth.
     
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  11. NumisNinja

    NumisNinja Active Member

    If you bought a silver half dollar in 1964 it was worth 50 cents. In 2018 it's worth $7.50, or 15 times that amount.

    If you invested that same 50 cents in the stock market into things like Microsoft, Apple, Google, or even just the S&P, then you'd have made 40 times as much. And that's not including reinvesting earnings, which would be more like 100 times as much.

    This illustrates how you would, historically speaking, make magnitudes more profit by investing in stocks rather than coins or precious metals. So if you just want profit, don't focus on coins.
     
  12. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    If you do decide to continue investing money in coins I'd recommend picking a series, learning about it in great detail, and buying coins from eBay, shows, and shops. You'll get burned quite a bit at first but you'll eventually learn and get to the point where you can make solid buys.

    There is no easy way to make money.

    Those who do make money in coins are only getting a fraction of the money they've invested time wise - they could make more minimum wage at Mc Donald's in some cases. The ones that make a living at it have dedicated themselves to the hobby and work many hours.

    Unless you're C-B-D and find rare coins in lose change, on the side walk, as prizes in Kracker Jack boxes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  13. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    But was he talking about just getting back more than you paid for them, or really making money after figuring in for inflation? Probably the former. For example 30 years ago for $5,000 you could have purchased 217 proof 1998 Olympic comm silver dollars. Today 30 years later they are worth $7,600. So in absolute terms a little better than a 50% return on your money. But when you factor in inflation and the declining purchasing value of the money, you need at least $12,000 just to break even. So it actually represent a $4,400 loss.

    Coins are usually NOT considered to be a good investment. There are exceptions but finding them is usually more a matter of luck than shrewd choice. It is much easier to get a better return in stocks or mutual funds.
     
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  14. Patlal

    Patlal New Member

  15. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Not only do you have a real loss, but you will be asked to pay income tax on the $2,600 "gain," adding insult to injury.

    I've been collecting since I was in elementary school, around 1960. I sold much of my collection when I needed money in college, and came out about even. I have gradually rebuilt a collection, mostly inexpensive but historically interesting pieces. I still have a few from my youth, including some I paid face for. Considering inflation, I have probably lost money on most of those I paid face for, and at best would break about even on the others! But I have and continue to enjoy the hobby! I don't think I've sold any coins or bills since 1970.
     
  16. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Those are a different kind of collectors market. They are 10 ounces of silver or roughly $140.00 in silver content. Speculating on these is like my Uncle speculating on the Richard Petty plates he purchased in 1985...... There may be a fabulous market for these in ten years. Personally, I see $140.00 in silver content. I believe you would do far better purchasing $1150.00 in government issued Silver Eagles. Much larger purchasing audience for ASE's.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  17. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Will they give you your cash back?
    As for whether you want it back or not depends on what kind of a gambler you are. If you bought them for the silver value, you will never come out even close in real terms. If you bought them because you love DC comics, you have your gain in hand in the form of the "coins." If you bought it because you believe the rarity will make the value go up, good luck: you just bought lottery tickets. Rarity does not make anything valuable. Demand in excess of availability does. So if, in the future, there are thousands of relatively rich DC comics fans wanting these, they will be worth a lot. Think of all the people who pay high prices for old Coca Cola memorabilia. But if not, well, they will be worth little or nothing more than the silver content. I once saw a coin advertised as "unique" on ebay, that is, only one was known to exist, the rarest of rare. I researched it and it probably was. A U.S. regular issue dime that was unique would bring millions. This coin only sold for $500 because few people care to collect minor coins from small African countries. It all depends on what others will want in the future, and you cannot possibly know that.
     
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  18. Patlal

    Patlal New Member

    I still get full refund if I want it

    What I know for a fact:

    1) People go crazy for superhero stuff.

    2) The thing is massive... Kinda impossible to fake unless you are better the the Canadian Mint

    3) Definitely unique. Made by DC artists

    4) Will Superman have yet another movie? Yup, many more.

    5) Do coin collectors exist? Fairly certain they are a thing.

    6) Is this even a coin at this point? Not really... The thing is the size of my hand.

    So essentially, what I'm looking for is a total nerd with extra money that loves superheroes enough to collect expensive memorabilia that are extremely unique.

    Preferably, he has a cat and a gaming laptop.

    I think I just might find the type of guy I'm looking for.

    Because let's face it... Let's list the things we all know...

    - It's gonna be a guy...
    - He's gonna be between 25 and 40
    - He's gonna be dressed up at comic con
    - He's gonna owned a bunch of comic books
    - Probably gonna have all the DVDs too.

    We all know who I'm looking for...
     
  19. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Investments are stocks, bonds, commodities, mutual funds, etc.

    Coins are fun!

    I leave it at that.
     
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  20. Dave M

    Dave M Francophiliac

    Regarding:
    I think the vast majority of coin collectors are not even in the market for those superhero collectors items, and would be surprised to hear anyone call them "coins". So yes, while coin collectors exist, they are not the consumers of these items. The main consumers (IMO) will be superman/comic fans, which I suspect is a larger base of people.
     
  21. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    I collect U.S. commemorative coins, but I collect the classic series issued between 1892-1954. These have increased in value greatly, but they are currently worth about 1/4 what they were in the late '80's to mid-90's. So, whoever bought them then lost a great deal of money. I buy them now because I think they are near the bottom of where they will drop as far as price goes. I am gambling, but I am a collector, so even if I sell them for 1/2 of what I paid, I will still be happy because of the enjoyment and learning I received from them. The mintages are usually less than 25,0000. Compare that to the new commemoratives with mintages in the 500,000 range. And the older pieces didn't come in special capsules and cases, so many have been spent or mis-handled through the years. So the available numbers are low - especially compared to all of the perfect-condition Edison dollars.
     
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