1859 IHC is this an Old/New Variety or a Fake?

Again I am looking for opinions on one I have reservations about. Something about it doesn't seem quite right but I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

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And how, exactly, are we supposed to assist you? Are we simply supposed to guess, or... (hint, hint)?

 

Two things make me hesitant to to pull the trigger on this coin. The date doesn't seem quite right and in the resources available to me I can't find a Rev. variety (this could be good) with the marks in the dentils that show in the photo .

 

Search eBay and Google for certified ones and compare. You'll find the answer.

 

Your instincts are good.

Those sinking dentils on the reverse are a frequent sign of a bad copy, never mind the weird raised features that probably caught your eye.

The reverse lettering looks wrong to me, too.

 

Why do you say sinking . I have never heard the term before .

 

Bad. Other than the reverse marks, does the sharpness of detail make sense for a coin that has the wear of an XF-AU 1859 Indian cent?

 

With my limited knowledge it's hard to say. I have seen more than a few unc. CN cents with mushy details from die wear

 

We must've crossed paths as your photos were not there at the time I started typing. Thanks for adding them.

All concerns aside, if you're not comfortable with any coin, simply don't buy it. Never try to convince yourself. The idea that a coin may be something special ("this could be good") will rarely work out in your favor. Be honest with yourself about your true abilities and stay within them. If you don't like a coin at first impression, chances are very good you'll never like it. Pretty basic stuff, but if you stick to it chances are your hobby experience will be more enjoyable overall. Consider unknowns to be part of the leaning experience.

 

Sage advice. I have been addicted to the Indian cents for better than 30 yrs and have bought traded and sold more than a few and have pondered and debated the grade on many . I know there were fakes around when I started but I am appalled at the numbers there are now. Ebay has been a huge contributer to the problem and this isn't their fault,they only provide the platform that makes it possible. I admit my weakness in knowledge in this area. There are two reasons I posted this, 1st I am far from being a newbie and realize there is always more to know and 2nd it is important for younger enthusiasts to have the answers from knowledgeable experts in posts like this to fall back on.

 

Yes, it's a fake.

 

I don't think it is a genuine piece.

Did you weigh it first?

 

Was nothing personal, Hoke. I usually try to be very general with folks I haven't interacted with yet, hoping to cover all bases and/or present a view others haven't yet expressed.

A belated welcome to the forum!

 

Nothing personal taken and a thanks for the welcome. This is a great place where I hope to learn and contribute!

 

Reverse lettering doesn't look right especially and in spots the denticles are iffy. Not genuine IMO.

 

I don't own it, it is for sale in an auction.

 

Never, ever bid if you are not certain. If you have to guess, don't.

That being said, I do buy counterfeits. However, the following applies:

1. I do so for research purposes. Studying counterfeits and genuine pieces together helps you learn to identify fakes on your own.

2. Unless I verify myself that a counterfeit actually contains 90% gold or silver, I never pay more than $2 for good counterfeits.

 

Interesting. That could be of good use, maybe if someone created a database of observations. How do you verify it is 90% gold or silver? Density? Scanning Machine? X-Rays?

 

One of the biggest gold buyers is in Buffalo. He has a nice machine that can tell me. Gives me a printout and everything.

 

Look at the denticles from 10:00 to 11:00 on the reverse. It looks like they're sinking under the surface of the field. (Imagine the field as a pool of liquid; the denticles should all be standing well above its surface, but in that region, they aren't.)

This happens on a lot of fake coins. Frequently, other parts of the coin's design appear submerged, too. In the reverse photo you posted, look at the ribbon below the wreath, and the wreath itself from 6:00 to 9:00. You can see the same thing happening.