What is the purpose of CAC?

Wow, this thread went downhill.

I think I would rather tell half the collectors out there to learn what they are doing and stop relying on someone else to tell them what they have.

 

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My wife loves ratchet tv, like all those mob wives and housewives of xx city and all. For me, there is CoinTalk.

 

Perhaps you didn’t read the rest of this thread, I clearly challenged Doug’s opinion on this subject. I’m not in the habit of challenging people who simply like someone else’s posts, because often times, many of them are lurkers.

As for the rude & personal attacks, you started the name calling in this thread so stop being a baby when people push back.

If you collect US coins, show us your nicest US coin, give us your opinion on its grade and the associated value. You claim to have 57 years of numismatic knowledge and actively collect US coins.

PROVE IT!

 

To quote pip squeak poker player.
"No, it's hogwash, as are many of the other posts in this thread".

 

You said that really well. They are tools that should not be ignored. You take that and add the other tools you have and form your own opinion. I even ask good friends what they think about some coins before laying down the money.

 

That’s what I do, call bluffs. You bluffed, I called, you mucked.

Btw, when I said many of the other posts were hogwash, I was specifically referring to yours!

 

I must admit, that I was skeptical on the service, but I am now a believer in the service.........it's just bloody heck that I gotta pay more for those little green beans...........most times I don't, however.

 

What's a Brit know? Kripes, I'm gonna get pummeled on that in the 'morrow........

 

I`m sorry, this is the only one on this PC, at least its not a crappy nickel eh.

EF

 

There's actually some very good points and education in this thread, but it takes the patience of a saint to find it among the muck.

 

EF huh? 40 or 45?

The devil is in the details!

 

Ya know? That guy never did like me........

 

I see what you did there. "Details" lol

 

I'm not sure if CAC has beaned any counterfeits, they might have. As for so mny getting by the TPG's that has been a more recent thing. I used to be they were very good at weeding out the fakes, but the counterfeiters have been getting a lot better and now it typically takes a specialist in the given series to identify them initially. Then they teach the TPG what to look for and the TPG issues a press release about the new fake THEY discovered.

Well it started on a steep slope.

 

It's exhausting trying to educate someone so clueless. It absolutely is catching on and I could easily show you 10s of thousands of graded coins in UK dealers inventory along with sold in UK auctions and the NGC office in London, but you've made it quite clear all you care about is expressing your feelings.

I can certainly understand that you are very likely scared that it will become big there taking away your ability to under pay for coins you can sell.

It's not just an American thing but you can keep telling yourself that if you want. Like I said do everyone a favor including yourself and instead of coming to threads like these and making a complete fool of yourself, don't even bother to open the tread. You've derailed a legitimate discussion while contributing your feelings and misinformation

 

On the other hand though, if someone blindly bought CAC their collection would almost always be better than someone blindly buying graded coins and both of those collectors would be significantly better than blindly buying raw coins.

Blindly buying is never smart, but if you are going to do it do it with CAC coins

 

These threads about CAC and the TPGs always divide into two camps among collectors: those who use them and those who don’t. Members of one camp — unless I missed something — have never gotten a member of the opposing camp to join them. That’s not the point.

I wish we could remember that a lot of new collectors come here to get information so they can decide the issue for themselves. Pros and cons on this and other issues are most helpful. I assume everyone is smart enough to figure out the best path for them to take.

As another member said, there’s some good stuff here for the new collector to mull over — provided he or she can actually find it amid the baloney, insults and over-the-top labels. We’d do the new collector a service by turning it down several notches.

 

Personally never used either the TPGs or CAC, but can recognize the importance. While I personally feel that anything beyond authentication is unnecessary, I also recognize that my experience and perspective is just that... mine. I guess the point is that there does exist a middle ground. You can not utilize something, but still understand the significance it provides for other people and not view them as inferior for using such services. If everyone knew everything there probably wouldn't be much to talk about.

 

As mentioned there is a middle ground which unfortunately many posters who don't use the services aren't in. No one has ever said the services have to be used, but people will push back when absurd comments like it's for the gullible or they're there to rip you off ect are made, which is unfortunately what gets expressed a lot instead of a perfectly reasonable position like @Numismat has.

In my opinion the ones who don't use the services at all generally fall into 6 groups. Some of these apply more to the TPGs and others more to CAC, but even these five can be split into two groups.

The first group has legitimate reasons and can often be found in the middle ground position of I can see a value but I choose not to use them.
1. Ancient collectors. It makes sense that they don't use TPGs for the most part as authenticity isn't even guaranteed for them. I could see a value if authenticity was guaranteed, but those types of coins really don't lend themselves well to grading. This group may not see any value if they're purely an ancient collector, but given what they collect it's understandable.

2. World/Modern/Token/Medal/Error collectors. This applies more to CAC but obviously CAC doesn't do these so they have no use for CAC.

3. Collectors whose coin values don't justify the cost/collectors that like to crack coins out. This one can be more for CAC but the TPGs as well depending on the price. There is nothing wrong with collecting coins in this price range and most collectors do it. It's perfectly logical and reasonable not to require CAC or use CAC on those unless someone was just doing it as a learning exercise. There's also nothing wrong with someone cracking their coins out if that's what they prefer as long as they know how that will impact them if they choose to sell.

Then we have the self serving group that often are the ones who say they services are a scam, ripoff, for those who don't want to learn ect.
1. The know it alls/egomaniacs. This group knows everything there is to know and doesn't need any help ever and couldn't possibly learn anything from anyone else. They view themselves as the ultimate expert in everything and often are very demeaning to people who use the services. This is also the group that is generally the most misinformed in these topics and have very little or more often no experience in the subject.

2. The business group. This is the group where the TPGs and CAC have made it harder for them to say everything is undergraded, top of the grade, or even that problem coins aren't problem coins. Life would be easier for them without the services and they hope to convince people they don't need them and their raw coins are just as good and should sell for the same prices. This is often seen with the ones saying I don't trust the services types.

There are exceptions to this group such as foreign/token/bullion seller types, they have no use for CAC. There are also sellers that simply choose not to use CAC and sellers who may live in a place where customers don't want coins graded. These types generally understand the value but have a business model that works without them and will generally at least occasionally use them especially for high value items.

3. Collectors who built a collection based off of the lowest priced coins for the grade instead of focusing on quality. This applies more to higher end collectors that were cost conscious in their purchases and have a lot of money invested in the collection. This applies mostly to CAC as the low end high priced coins have suffered since they started.

There are legitimate criticisms of the services, but very rarely are those expressed especially in CAC threads and far to often people just say whatever they feel with no facts backing up their statements. That gives people bad information and that is what some of us have been pushing back on especially when people act like experts yet have no experience with the subject they're talking about. No one is trying to force people to use anything but people should have accurate information to make their own decisions.

Everyone of us has things we can learn from CAC and the services if you're a US collector, those of us who don't think so are really over estimating our own ability and very likely are unaware of how good the doctoring tricks and fakes can be. Unfortunately CAC is the topic that always makes supposedly intelligent people lose their intellect.

 

There is a CAC facsimile for these called WINGS. Same m.o. and deal.