What Factors Constitute BodyBagging?

I've seen many members here post pictures of beautiful coins, some raw and some slabbed, but one constant theme in the threads which deal with these coins and the TPGing process is BODYBAGGING. What are the determining factors which separates an ungraded, attributed, beautiful coin and a slabbled, authenticated, and graded numismatic article? In a way, it's no longer a coin...

To many a damaged coin is one which won 't work in a coke machine, LOL but to the TPGs there have to be other, vastly more subtle flaws which in the graders determination identifies the coin as flawed.

Perhaps it had been dipped, but I've seen comments on threads here discuss the fact that TPGs infact (sometimes) dip coins before grading them, hmmm...

How about altered surfaces? Well, on this same forum there have been coins shown that have been returned (BodyBagged) for having mechanically altered surfaces. Yet, when submitted for a 2nd or 3rd time they are successfully slabbed.

It is all very confusing to me, someone who doesn't understand the intricacies of the process and steers away completely. If you would care to elaborate on this issue or tell a story which clears up the confusion would be greatly appreciated.

Take Care
Ben

 

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I'm not really sure myself Ben, I just wanted to be the first to post..haha:hail:

 

most of the time i have only seen bent, cleaned, corroded, holed, scratched, stained, nicked, or altered date/mintmark coins being bodybagged. its actually kindof sad seeing such a nice looking coin in one of those.

 

I don't totally understand it, but here are some things that might constitute a bodybag:

Artificial Toning
Some rim dings
Some cleaning
Scratches
Etc, all I can think of for right now.

Phoenix

 

Do the good ones that come back in a body bag atleast get resubmitted to the other company before being melted??? Hey, Ive cought bass with lures made out of coins!!!!

 

are you being sarcastic or serious?

 

Chuckle, just look at the avatar...

Ben

 

In my opinion, if PCGS was doing a truly professional job of giving the customers what they paid for, the above list of flaws would be listed on the face of a slab instead of bodybagging the coins. This is the only business I can think of where a service provider can choose to not perform a service that has been prepaid without returning the money.

 

Well, generally the first prerequisite to bodybagging is that the individual be dead...

oh, wait... hya:

 

Thanks Doug, those certainly are reasons. Enforcement is another factor altogether...


Ben

 

some of the reasons don't make much sense to me. I don't see why they don't grade coins that are lightly cleaned, have a planchet flaw, a rim ding or a scratch. It seems easy enough to just put the problem on the holder. most any coin should at least get a details grade. I know ANACS will grade problem coins, I just don't understand why others don't, other than to make easy money.

 

JMO, open for debate, but I don't understand why NGC or PCGS don't like said, just list the problem on the holder, and do like ANACS "XF-45 details" or so. Just something that doesn't make much sense to me personally.

Phoenix

 

From what I understand, PCGS is considering doing details grading.

 

They are providing a service by inspecting the coin and reporting their findings to the submitter. Do you think they should provide that service for free?

Their standards are such that they cannot assign a grade to a coin that has been altered or damaged. By maintaining these high standards and not slabbing every coin submitted to them the public will have more faith that coins slabbed by that TPG will not be altered or damaged. (ANACS will slab many of these coins.)

Hopefully we won't be seeing the following PCGS- or NGC-graded coins:

1936 5 Cent Pr-64 Cleaned
1853 50 Cent MS-63 Holed
1914-D 1 Cent Altered Date

 

I think most people send the coin to be authenticated, graded, and slabbed. Every coin sent with the proper fee should be authenticated, graded, and slabbed. The grade can be accompanied by whatever description of the problems discovered that suits their "standards." I never even hinted that they should provide the service for free. On the contrary, I said they should provide the service for which they were paid and not try to save a few pennies under the guise of "standards." The fact that the PCGS can get away with this fraud only proves that you can fool most of the people at least some of the time. If PCGS actually slabbed and identified cleaned, holed and even counterfeit coins, they would raise the standards in the hobby by saving at least a few unknowing collectors from buying problem coins for full value.

 

How long do you think those coins will remain in their holder with a negative notation? Those problem coins will be cracked out of those holders and sold raw where they may bring more from an unsuspecting buyer than they would if they were in a holder that stated they were cleaned, altered, counterfeit, etc.

 

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