did native americans use coins?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by bkozak33, Apr 16, 2013.

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  1. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Not sure if it fits in the discussion ....and extremely seldom mention a utube, but this may be of interest, was to me. Jim

     
    desertgem, Aug 26, 2018
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    There is no doubt, none at all, that the smelting of metals began many thousands of years ago. But, the native Americans never developed it, just like they never developed the wheel or anything beyond stone tools and weapons.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 26, 2018
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  4. Taurus57

    Taurus57 Active Member

    I mostly tend to agree, Native Americans pretty much lived off the bounty of the land and the crude weapons and tools were all that they needed. They couldn't eat refined metals and such. The closest thing to a wheel that they had was probably some sort of travois and those aren't round.
     
    Taurus57, Aug 26, 2018
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  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It should be noted the primary reasons that inventions and technology spread around the rest of the world after being invented in one place were because they were carried there. Sure, there are cases of independent and even simultaneous development, but as a general rule they are few and far between. But the New World, it was basically shut off from outside contact for thousands of years by the oceans. So it was not until Europeans arrived that they ever saw most things that been around for a long time, some thousands of years.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 26, 2018
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  6. Taurus57

    Taurus57 Active Member

    A lot of what happened when in the new world is subject to a speculation as well because there were no written records. So it's left to archeologists to help us piece things together.
     
    Taurus57, Aug 26, 2018
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  7. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

    ...and Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond
     
    Kentucky, Aug 26, 2018
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    When I saw the quote I realized I made an oops when I typed that. The author's name is J. Bronowski, not John. The J actually stands for Jacob. I corrected my mistake. :shame:
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 27, 2018
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  9. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I don't know about those books, but here is the Wiki article on the subject saying "South American had full metallurgy with smelting and various metals being purposely alloyed". Again, from what I read on the subject, the copper plates were made in Ecuadorian Incan lands for trade with Central America. Eventually, what the Central Americans were doing with the plates got back to the Incans and they made various "denominations" of spades (all MUCH rarer than Central American pieces).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_America

    Many 2017 papers referenced here. Maybe those books you suggest are out of date?
     
    medoraman, Aug 27, 2018
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  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That could be, regarding South America. But the opening paragraph of your link clearly states -

    The metal would have been found in nature without need for smelting techniques and shaped into the desired form using heat and cold hammering techniques without chemically altering it by alloying it. To date "no one has found evidence that points to the use of melting, smelting and casting in prehistoric eastern North America."

    Which is effectively the same thing I said. Excepting SA based on new finds of course.

    And no one has ever found any evidence of coins north or south !
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 27, 2018
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  11. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Um, no and no. I clearly posted that from my readings there was a trade from Ecuadorian Inca to Central America for plate copper, (smelted and alloyed). These were made into proto-currency by the Aztecs there. Eventually, the Inca's made similar proto-currency based upon what the Aztecs were making. I never stated the Central American cultures invented smelting, (though further in the article it does state parts of Central America had this technology), but rather they invented their own form of proto-currency.

    Now, if you do not consider proto-currency "coins" then fine. However, this is the basis why I reject the notion that the Spanish brought the idea of making proto-currency to the new world. I believe the native population was ALREADY doing this before they arrived, (just like the Chinese invented very similar items 2000 years before).

    Just like asserting space aliens taught Egyptians to make a pyramid, (and Mayans), I frankly consider it insulting to assume only advanced "western" people could have taught the Mesoamericans everything.
     
    medoraman, Aug 27, 2018
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  12. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    desertgem, Aug 27, 2018
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  13. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

    Hey, I thought those pyramids were for storing grain...:)
     
    Kentucky, Aug 27, 2018
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  14. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Bitcoins
     
    Cheech9712, Aug 27, 2018
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Chris it's a discussion/debate that has probably gone on for 2 centuries or more. And you and I sure as heck aint gonna settle it here :)

    In any event Chris, get a copy of that book. Knowing you as I do, YOU will absolutely love it ! Get one from the library even. But once ya do, you'll buy your own ;)

    I first read that book over 40 years ago, still have that copy and have read it several times. That book and one other (which was fiction) made more of an impression on me than any others and I've read hundreds of thousands of books.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 28, 2018
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  16. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

    Did you ever read Guns, Germs, And Steel? If not, give it a try.
     
    Kentucky, Aug 28, 2018
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  17. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I picked up a copy but my father took it and hasn't given it back yet.
     
    Conder101, Aug 29, 2018
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  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Sounds similar. In fact, based on what I have just read it sounds like his book may have been inspired by Bronowski's book. But it also sounds like Bronowski's work has a much larger mix of scientific development and technology coupled with sociology, and its effects on man, than this one is. And it also sounds like Diamond left a lot out, as compared to the other. For one thing Bronowski goes back to the beginning, not just the past 13k years.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 29, 2018
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