Did anyone see Mike's article on Die Dents on the Coneca Website. I'm not sure if I understand the purpose of the article. Is the argument that the Wisconsin errors are die dents? Or is the argument that it is possible to alter the dies when they are in a tempered state? While a die dent may be a plausible explanation for the Wisconsin Error Quarters I find it very unlikely that a die dent would show up twice on the same state Quarter directly in line with the ear of corn to look like a leaf on both occassions. It may be possible but in my opinion that would be quite a coincidence (although I guess it could be possible). Disclaimer: I have not a grain of sand's worth of knowledge compared to Mike. It is very possible that I am just very confused. http://hermes.csd.net/~coneca/ Myster
He can undoubtedly answer better than me, but basically he is saying that the dents from pressure ridges could have occured while the die was soft or after the die had been hardened. The gist of the continuing discussion, as I understand it, is that they are trying to find a way to explain how the leaf error could have occured from legitimate causes. And they are using supporting evidence to do this.
I am only discussing one line of evidence among many that have been used to determine the nature and origin of the "extra leaves". I have not presented any conclusion as to whether the "extra leaves" are intentional or accidental or when they appeared on the die. My only point is that die dents with pressure ridges are not unique to the "low leaf". If the appearance of such pressure ridges is dependent on a die being in a softened state, then the die dent on the nickel indicates that softened dies awaiting final heat treatment can suffer damage. If the die was damaged while the die was in operation, it indicates that pressure ridges can form in hardened dies. Anyone who would see this as definitive evidence in support of any position is extrapolating beyond what the evidence will support. While everyone agrees that the "extra leaves" were punched into the dies (i.e., that they're die dents), there is uncertainty whether they were accidental or intentional. I don't pretend to know the answer.
The above is why I really enjoy this forum. An education is available to anyone who wishes to learn. Thanks, Mike.
Their main page ont the website has gotten soooo large that I can't even view it on my home dial-up internet.....I have to wait till I get to my Cable connection to view it..... Speedy
That's a perpetual problem with the website, but I have no control over its management. That's Ken Potter's domain.
Could the problem occure with a die that that hasn't been hardened? Does Anyone know the Alloy's uses to produce the dies? What Rc are the Dies after hardening? What are the required RC after the drawing of the Dies? Rhubarb
Yeah I know---and I didn't mean it as rude against you or the club. I wish there was a way I could help with the site as I would like to see it put into a CMS or something like that so it would be better for every President, for now and down the road. I should be at the other place for awhile tomorrow and if I have time I'll look forward to reading your article! Speedy
About as possible as detonating dynamite in a forest and the resulting explosion causing the formation of a log cabin. I don't know how they got there or who put them there, but it is more than just unlikely, it is impossible, for those extra leaves to have arrived on the die, looking precisely like leaves and in exactly the correct position to be connected to the earn of corn, by anything other than an intentional act. Mistake maybe, accident no. It boggles my mind that anyone can argue the extra leaves to be some sort of accident or random error with a straight face.
Speedy, I should be seeing Ken this weekend. I will mention to him that the site is not dial-up friendly and make a few suggestions to him.
Your argument would have some merit, except for the fact that the "leaves" are not very leaflike to my eyes, and the "high" leaf grows out of a wheel of cheese and terminates in a leaf. You also fail to mention the 4-5 (or more) 2004 cents with semicircular die dents or die gouges around Lincoln's statue, as well as the 2004-D "double ear" dime. Would you claim that all of these are the result of mischeif? If not, then it's clear that semicircular die dents and die gouges do occur accidentally. Whether the "leaves" are accidents remains unclear.
