I just bought this. What do you think it graded?

VG something. The dark toning kinda hurts I think but it IS a 16D so depends on how much you paid. I have no 16D so therefore I am envious.

 

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VG8

 

Not trying to start an argument here or anything, (I did ask for opinions and I greatly appreciate them all) but I’m genuinely trying to figure out how anyone could misconstrue natural circulation grime/toning with environmental damage? One is naturally occurring in circulation, the other is from being exposed to the elements and corroding, pitting, or, in general being exposed to adverse environmental conditions. Enlighten me here.

 

It's all the same thing. It's all environmental damage. The TPGs draw a line of where they will still straight grade a coin but go either way with dark coins. Nothing to misconstrue. Dark fields were caused by the elements.

 

Silver can tone black but in this case a lot of it is just crud build up from circulation.
I bet a lot of it would dissolve in an acetone soak.

 

A coin can have both natural circulation and environmental damage. When a circulated coin is considerably darker than the typical sample for that date, a grading service might look askance at it. An uncirculated silver dollar that has toned to the point that it has a large amount of flat, black toning is likely to be called environmentally damaged. I take it from your response that they were fine with the color, and I'm fine with that.

 

I'm going with G-06. I just think there is too much wear on the head for a VG. Rev has more detail, but usually the obv carries the grade. I like the dark toning and think it highlights the remaining details and adds depth to the images. (check the examples on PCGS photograde).

 

This is confusing. So are all circulated coins technically “environmentally damaged”? Any circulated Silver coin has some degree of crud/grime/darkness in fields, not necessarily universally dark but in the devices/crevices...... Lack therof would indicate cleaning on a circulated specimen....

 

VG-8. Good example IMO

 

Good reasoning. I see your point. But gotta stick with a 8

 

Your right. Their wrong. I'm not thinking enviro damage either. IMO MEMBERS

 

Dark dirt and toning in the crevices are not a problem. It's when the field turns dark, not because of dirt and grime, but because of environmental issues, that the environmental damage designation comes into play. Here's a video from PCGS that shows and explains it. Again, your coin is acceptable the way it is, but if the toning had been darker and heavier, it probably wouldn't be.

 

All the coins shown in the video were high grade MS nor bore any resemblance or mentioned a circulated cameo or the effects of circulation. Also, if PCGS (or NGC for that matter) were to bodybag such coins as the one I purchased, they’d also be bodybagging stuff like this:


(Horrible Eye Appeal, shouldn’t have been slabbed)
https://m.ebay.com/itm/1916-D-10C-M...l8AAOSwwAdbBz3c:sc:USPSFirstClass!64850!US!-1

(Unattractive obverse toning yet less egregious as example above)
https://m.ebay.com/itm/1916-D-MERCU...503648&hash=item285e795919:g:fE8AAOSwa~JbNGcM

(NGC Example in lower grade, but still dark devices)
https://m.ebay.com/itm/1916-D-Mercu...426442&hash=item1cb3a67696:g:P6IAAOSwunBbItfx

 

VG-10.

 

My first thought is 8

 

So what's the grade already?

 

You don't understand what has been said. No one is wrong. It's all been good information that should be thought about.

 

The key takeaway from the video in this case was that dark toning that's "burned" into the surface is cause for environmental damage. Had the black half dime been subsequently circulated, the fields would have remained black, and you'd eventually see the cameo effect you see on your coin, except with darker, uglier fields.

Most of the no-grade designations do not have easily observed thresholds, and environmental damage isn't one of them. Moreover, as graders and customers change, these gray areas shift. I will post a circulated Mercury dime tonight that I think would qualify for environmental damage.

Regarding the three coins you linked above, the VF is an ugly coin. It will never sell for the price asked, and the seller will be lucky to get $3000 for it. It was slabbed before PCGS noted problems on the holder, and perhaps was given a net grade of 25. It's a good candidate for ED today, which is probably why it remains in that holder, which I think represents a low point of PCGS's grading. The MS66 coin is probably OK in hand. I think the picture makes the toning look worse than it is, because it's not showing the luster well. The AG3 coin is a dark picture. The fields aren't uniformly dark, and the coin probably looks better under some decent light.

I was looking through the auctions cited in CoinFacts for large swings in price at the VG-F range, but didn't find much. There are some slightly nicer, slightly more expensive coins in each of the grades, but nothing really jumps out one way or another, other than a rather slick VG10 that didn't sell for as much as other VG10s (which, looking at the coins there, is what I now think your coin graded).

 

Extremely articulate and informative post. I appreciate it and now it makes better sense. Thank you!!

 

And...... Here is the reveal in hand. PCGS VG08.

I truly believe (from my experience) this is the nicest VG08 I have ever handled, and nicest 1916-D I have ever owned, which will be the centerpiece to my collection.

However, with that said, I paid $1310 for this coin. I’m a bit concerned I overpaid, especially with the possibility it could come back Environmentally Damaged according to some of the members.

Any final thoughts/comments guys?