I was down at my fav coin shop today, goin through the world coins, when I came across a sleeve/tray of coins that I had never looked through. I could tell the tray was heavy and that the coins were probably silver in nature so of course I got excited! In going through the coins I found two 8 reales and a 2 reales. I was going to purchase all three of these coins when I got to looking at one the reales that just didn't look right (I'll post pics of the other ones later). I flipped the coin over and found that the reverse of the coin appeared to have the silver peeling off of it. I looked at my friend (who is the dealer) and held up the coin (obverse toward him). I said, "Hey what's this?".... he said that's an 8 Reale...I then flipped the coin over and handed to him and said, "What's up with this coin?" He looked at the coin and looked back at me and said, "You can have it......" I started to laugh. Apparently this coin wasn't suppossed to be out in the trays and I know this for fact because the 2x2 that it was in had none of their usual writing on it (their version of barcodes for record keeping). Also the 2x2 it was in was not the type that they normally use, it appeared much older and well, I can't explain it..... Anyways, I do think this coin is fake (although I have been wrong in the past!) because of the flaking silver and it appears to be iron or even copper underneath. Here are the pics. I just thought it was interesting because it looks like this coin was actually passed around back in the 1800's as currency.... Just something cool, plus I know that there are people out there that actually collect counterfeit coins so I figured they may like this one. Todd
Yup! It does look like an interesting counterfeit. The coin, likely contemporary, was plated with silver to pass as genuine. Judging by the hole, you aren't the first person to figure it out!
I dont know if it is real. But what a story it could tell if like you mentioned it was truly circulated its a keeper even if it is a fake in my book! (just, maybe, write it down someplace that it is a fake for future refferance lol)
Usually once these type items were found to be counterfeit, the bankers would hole them and place them on rings in the banks so that tellers could look at fake examples to see if a coin was real or not. It could have also been done to simply see if the coin was real. Todd
So you're saying this counterfeit Piece of Eight may not be that "contemporary" after all. Interesting. Does look like base metal, though, with the silver plating peeling off. Nice find.
No its contemporary. Here let me post what an expert in this field has told me about this piece. This is from a guy names SwamperBob from another forum. He is in the process of updating several books on the 8 Reales and their counterfeits. "Very nice "Birmingham style" Sheffield Plate counterfeit of a Mexico City 8R. It appears to be silver over copper (which was typical) and the silver layers are heavy indicating it is fairly early. As they developed more proficiency with the process the silver layer got thinner. The older heavier plates tend to show more large scale peeling like I see here. The nature of the core can be guessed at based on the green verdegris I can see on the surface of the core. The hole in this case is unlikely to be for suspension. It is far more likely to be a period cancellation. These forgeries were kept on chains or rings in banks so that tellers could refer to known BAD copies for comparison. The date is not in the 1798 list of known forgeries attributed to the British government made at Birmingham, but the general style and method of manufacture places it within the overall category. Even with the drill hole the coin is worth a bare minimum of $50 to a collector - so you got a super deal. I would like to see the others as well."
Neat. But then I suppose he doesn't think it was hanging around in a bank for detection purposes while these were commonly circulating. Still, even as a contemporary forgery, very nice specimen you were given there by your dealer. :thumb:
nice catch! also, I may have asked you before, but does the "ASU" in your name stand for AZ State University? or another A-state? lol
This book is a fact and its due out in late 2014 via the ANS in New York City. Its in the final edit stages. John Lorenzo United States
Its a book depicting over a 1,000 contemporary counterfeit 8 Reales of the Portrait types for Carolus III, IV and Ferdinand VII. Its main author Robert Gurney (Swamperbob) is the principal author. Myself (John Lorenzo) and Gord Nichols of Canada have been on this project for the last four years. Many of the specimens have been XRF analyzed and we have confirmed over 15 different metal alloys. Each counterfeit will be given a GNL # (Gurney/Nichols/Lorenzo #) for a respective variety which will be plated in the book using two CD's since normal book plating would be two expensive and impractical for this project. We break down these counterfeits into four classes: Class 1 - struck with the regals, Class 2 - China export type counterfeits primarily of a debased silver alloy, Class 3 - Modern types & Class 4 - other miscellaneous types. All Class 1 types will be plated and most have been XRF confirmed in their alloy contents. It should be a book that is actually decades ahead of any other contemporary counterfeit book or article currently published - but that is just my biased opinion <BG>. John Lorenzo United States
Not sure of the exact title - something like Contemporary Counterfeit Eight Reales of the Portrait Dollars of Carolus III, Carolus IV & Ferdinand VII. Something of this sort. JPL
