Third Party Grading vs. You, the Amatuer

As evidenced here over the past couple of years (I've been here) there are plenty of members who are certainly as good as any grader from the top three TPGs. These members views are sought out many times before a numismatic transaction is made and I thank the ones who've helped me out in the past.

These individuals always come up with just about the same grade as the professional grader who puts the coin and grade in the slab. These members are gifted with a keen eye, understanding of metallurgy, and how it applies to the various coins. Do you feel you are as good or better than those who are employed by (say the top three) Third Party Grading companies.

Do you think you're as good as the paid grader at any of the (oh, top five) TPGs?

 

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for circulated coins: Perhaps.
For cleaned coin: Sometimes, some can be very deceptive.
for the difference between: MS63 & MS-64 or MS-66 & MS-67-- nope.

 

i am probably the second best grader in the world. God is number one and baby Jesus is a distant third.

 

If God was a TPG, would cracking out be a sin?

 

only on the Sabbath.

 

There is WAY to much I don't know to think I could be as good as a TPG employee from one of the top 5.

Grades (+/- 2) on the run of the mill moderns should not be that difficult if you read the standards and apply them to the coin - in hand. Has to be in hand as most pictures hardly represent the coin properly.

When you get into older coins (more than 70 years) I think too many other factors start to apply that I might not know. I think you have to really study the series and varieties to understand how to apply the correct grade. Just my opinion as it applies to me!

 

Nope, still have a lot to learn yet on my end. Yet another neat thread Bone. :thumb:

Phoenix

 

It really depends. Am I more consistent than most TP graders....certainly. But, only because they have to contend with a staggering number of coins on a daily basis and can't take the time that I have the luxury of taking.

Now, if I were to sit down one on one with a professional grader and we both had an unlimited amount of time to grade, I doubt I could hold a candle to their grading skills.

Though I'm far from a professional grader, I have the time to spend on one coin that a profession doesn't. That can make all the difference, at least in my opinion.
Guy~

 

Eh, sorta.
Sometimes I guess the grade pretty darn well. Other times Im way off. lol

 

How could you possibly know that unless you had been tested and scored over a long period of time and with a huge sample size of coins?

 

I suppose I meant that as a per average whole as opposed to any individual graders themselves, Mark. I don't think anyone here will disagree that all grading services lack consitency. An ms 62 today can be resubmitted tomorrow and come back an ms 65 and then be re-submitted again and come back an ms 66...all by the same service. We've all seen it. How can that be anything but inconsitency? I don't re-evaluate and re-grade my coins each time I look at them. How can you score performance on that?
Guy~

 

But also keep in mind, it isn't always the same group of graders. Different people, different opinions.

Phoenix

 

I'm not good on technical grading since I tend to go more for eye apeal. I tend to for the most part grade low I think. I've bought a lot of MS65 and MS66 coins in both PCGS and NGC holders that I would not grade that high because of some detracting marks or what not but have been told that technically they are that grade.
Then on the other hand I tend to grade coins with super nice eye appeal high.

LOL after rereading this I grade either low or high, so what I'm really saying is I can't grade correctly. I buy what I like not a grade on a holder anyway! LOL

 

This is where I pretty much stand.

 

I've got the final say on grading the (Bonedigger Collection) and think I do a pretty good job. Some of my (Bonedigger Standard) grades aren't exactly what the slabbed item initially reported was. Sometimes my grade is lower sometime it's higher and they can change with ease, that's the beauty of it. LOL...

Ben

 

Guy, taking your example, the number of MS62 coins which, if resubmitted, would come back MS65 or higher, is incredibly small in terms of numbers and percentages. On the other hand, huge numbers of resubmitted coins are graded identically or within a point, but those results are far less interesting/exciting, and thus often ignored, if even reported.

Yes, the grading companies are inconsistent, but that is because grading is inherently subjective. However, I bet that if you were tested over time with large quantities of coins, you wouldn't score nearly as high as you seem to think you would in the consistency department. Please know that I'm not picking on you in particular, as I'd say the same thing to anyone who made the claim that you did.

 

I feel as though if I were as good as the graders who work for the top TPGs I would be working for them, but I'm not. I believe I can grade circulated coins fairly well and MS coins to a certain point. I still have alot to learn.

 

Something that I find very telling and very wrong is that of the people who answered 'yes' or 'no' (at the time of this post), a majority of them think that they can grade "as Good or Better than some Third Party Graders". Either Coin Talk is home to some exceptional numismatists or home to some people who suffer from delusions of grandeur. And I don't say that trying to be mean. Most full time dealers can't grade nearly as well as the TPG.

Excluding the modern coin graders, the people who grade at the TPG are some very gifted people. They do an exceptional job of weeding out the problem coins, counterfeits are extremely rare to slip thru, and grades are usually in-line with the markets expectations. As for consistency, I find NGC to be very consistent, PCGS to be poor, but I believe that is their business model, and ANACS and ICG to be decent.

One thing that many people lack is the ability to grade across several series. While many people may be able to grade a Morgan $1 or Walking Liberty 50c fairly accurately, can they also grade a low mint state 2c, a poorly struck $1 gold, a circulated colonial, a high grade proof $3, a matte proof anything, and a flatly struck or possibly worn early copper? Oh, are you sure the above are all authentic? And never messed with? That's what these TPG graders do all the time. Can you do this?

Anyone who really thinks that they are better or as good as the TPG, I'd like to see you prove your faith in that belief by buying large amounts of raw coins. Will you step up to the plate when that raw High Relief Saint is offered to you, or that matte proof Buffalo nickel, or that superb gem looking early gold commemorative, or that circulated key date? Will you open your checkbook to back up your faith?

Or perhaps apply to be a grader at a TPG. They pay well. If you are as good as you think, you can get a job easily starting at $100K a year and perhaps as much as $250K a year.

There are a handful of people who are better than the graders at the TPG. They are the crackout dealers and they make 7-figures a year cracking out coins.

And anyone who grades a coin online and happens to match what a TPG said is as much lucky as they are skillful. There is no way to accurately grade a coin from an image. The best you can do is take a guess based on certain assumptions.

 

The important thing to remember is that all coin grading is subjective and open for interpretation. As far as becoming a professional grader I think several individuals here could easily qualify for a position as an apprentice.

For those thinking about it don't sell yourself short. Give it a try but be warned, I personally know a couple of individuals who've gone down that road and it's a head-hunting enviroment wrought with politics, deception, and yes-men...

Take Care
Ben

 

I can tell you if a coin is F VF XF UNC BU FDC.