Toning is corrosion!

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by TypeCoin971793, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I'm with you. A little periphery toning says, "Whoa, I got outta that album just in time." And a little natural yellow toning on silver is fine, and other colors are acceptable on really old stuff, but when the toning doesn't match the age, I not only won't pay MORE for it, I'll only pay LESS, often WAAAAAAAY less.
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    To each his own, and there's nothing wrong with that. But what exactly will you pay a premium for ? I mean pretty much everybody has something they'll pay a premium for.

    And that's the thing, it's pure chocolate and vanilla, every person has something they like and other things they don't like. But just because an individual's taste is different that does not make one or the other right, or wrong.

    The problem, the issue if you will is that there are some people who will pay what I call stupid money for a beautiful toned coin. But they rarely do so because they simply like the coin that much, they do so because they have the mistaken belief that the coloring somehow makes the coin more rare than it really is. And they will also pay that "stupid money" for a coin that, were it not for the pretty toning, would not be graded as highly as it is. In other words they completely forget about the underlying coin and are paying for the color alone.

    And in my book, that all by itself is a huge mistake.
     
  4. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Remember the 1964 Kennedy I showed here once that was a sick example of just that?
     
  5. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    Do you have it in your collection?
    I'm looking for a toned Kennedy (1964) and I only have $1500.00 to spend on it.
    Cut a bro a deal?
     
  6. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    NGC Number 4337715-001 MS65. It's in my collection.
     
    Gregg likes this.
  7. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    Post a picture of it!
    Here is what I found on eBay - you might be rich and not even know it.

    Capture.JPG
     
  8. NumisNinja

    NumisNinja Active Member

    Reminds me of lab created vs. natural gemstones. Compositionally they are the same thing. They look the same, sometimes the created even look better. But natural is worth more only because of the perceived value-add of authenticity. Toned coins are the same way. We want to know it did it on it's own and didn't have someone helping it along.
     
    Oldhoopster and TypeCoin971793 like this.
  9. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    That’s what I have been telling people for years. A coin that I intentionally put in a sulfur-rich envelope for 3 months to tone is AT. A coin that was put into an envelope for three months and just happened to tone because it was not stored properly is NT.

    People can ask whatever they want. That toning is hideous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  10. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I pay a premium for originality, not color. Sometimes the pattern alone can help determine the authenticity of the toning. For example, this half dime (sealed in an early ANACS soapbar) has the mottled first-cycle toning colors I would expect from uncirculated pre-1840 US silver coins. I will pay a premium for this look because in all likelyhood it has not been messed with.

    5B56B08A-26C1-42CB-96B7-5B4BC49DF73F.jpeg 06892927-C0F5-4353-AE25-B42861B94391.jpeg
     
  11. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    My deeply held thought is the "originality" is nothing but a guess, once you've eliminated the hamfisted obviously manufactured moderns. If it spent enough years in an ANACS soapbar, that ITSELF added extra toning.
     
  12. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Yes, but it was not intentionally created ;)
     
  13. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    As a rule, nothing. Oh, I might...might...pay a little extra if it's the last coin in a group (expediency has a dollar value), or if it's a coin I've been looking for a very long time without success. But generally speaking, if I don't think it's a good value, I walk.


    Exactly. And when they pay that stupid money, they become toning collectors rather than coin collectors.
     
  14. Seniorchief

    Seniorchief New Member

    So, tell me, I'm still learning, putting my coins in the 2x2 holders or "archival safe" albums is not a good thing?
     
  15. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    For decades, no such thing existed, but it may now. I suspect the green Littletons may be what conservators call "archival".
     
  16. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    At the risk of speaking for Doug, he's probably referring to:

    1) Dansco albums with cardboard pages, and/or ring binders that may contain PVCs; and

    2) 2x2s of the folding cardboard variety lined with cellophane. The hard plastic 2x2s that snap together are probably as safe for coins as Air-Tites.

    As for "archival safe" albums, I'd need to see a description of specifically what you're referring to.
     
  17. Gregg

    Gregg Monster Toning

    The pros store coins in 1 inch of Lucite:
    Capture.JPG
     
  18. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    The Lucite making pros sure do!
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Others have already pretty much answered your questions but I'll add my answers. Yes, cardboard 2x2s are bad for coins - for several reasons. As for "archival safe" albums, while there are those that claim to be, most are not archival safe for one reason or another.

    The rules for proper coin storage are pretty simple, basic in fact. And in a way that's kind of the problem because they are so simple that people overlook them, don't even think about them. To notice them, realize what they are, all you have to do is think a bit. What the enemies of coins ? Air, heat, moisture, and contact with other objects. But air itself is the primary enemy, the most damaging. The reason that air is the primary enemy of coins is because it contains everything else - heat, moisture, and contaminants. You also have to understand that direct contact is not the real problem - gasses are. And all paper and cardboard products contain sulfur, and they out this sulfur off in the form of gasses. So if there is paper or cardboard anywhere near your coins then the gasses being put off by it gets to your coins. And yes it will do so right through the coin holders. Plastic is air permeable - that means the air can go right through the face of the plastic itself - not just through the seals. So the only answer to is to not have anything that is not inert near your coins.

    And before you ask, yes, there are some archival quality paper and cardboard products. But they are very few and far between. And even some of them are still bad. For example, some companies make albums where the cardboard itself is archival. But then the outer wrapping of that album is covered in vinyl, or fake leather, or even real leather. All vinyl contains PVC - very bad for coins. So is fake leather and real leather. So what good does it do to make the cardboard archival when the rest of the album is not ? Answer - none at all !

    So to store your coins properly and protect them the best you can you have to do what you have to do to protect them from all of these things.

    You do that by using one of the hard plastic, individual coin holders. There are numerous brands of them and one is as good as the other. None of them will stop air flow from getting to your coins but all of them will greatly slow it down, reduce it. These individual hard plastic coin holders also protect the coins from contact with any other object.

    To further combat air flow you need to store these coins, in their holders, in an inert container of some kind that can be closed or sealed. A large Tupperware container for example. If it is safe to use for storing food it is safe for your coins. And that's the best you can do to reduce air flow as much as possible.

    To combat humidity/moisture you use silca gel packs, preferably the rechargeable kind. You place them inside the container you use. This will reduce the humidity/moisture that can get to your coins as much as possible.

    To combat heat/temperature changes you store your coins in an interior closet that has no exterior walls, and one where the temperature remains as constant as possible.

    Now if you use a safe, then nothing can be in that safe except your coins ! No guns, no paper, no cardboard, no anything ! Just your coins.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  20. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Most of my coins could care less about how they are stored ;)

    BE8743BA-D7A5-4E52-AF9F-4FE76218F1F3.jpeg
     
    John Skelton and Nathan401 like this.
  21. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    In the heyday of color slides, we used to tell people to store them where the humans are comfortable. Cool and dry.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page