Gordian III and the Cartwheel - Buying What You Didn't Know You Wanted

I just happened to have bought my first 2 pence yesterday. Probably over paid at $44 but I liked the coin. It is countermarked with a "T". Possibly owned by Mr. T at one time...

 

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1. TWO CHARLES II MILLED SILVER CROWNS
   Attribution Reference:
   A review of the coinage of Charles II
   (A British Numismatic Society PDF)
   
   An early (initial) 1662 issue
   
   
   CAROLVS·II·DEI·GRA .................................... MAG·BR·FRA·ET·HIB·REX·1662
   (Charles by the Grace of God) ...............................(King of Great Britain, France and Ireland)
   
   Obverse depiction: Draped laureate bust with Rose below (signifying minted using native silver from western England).
   
   Reverse depiction: Four crowned shields, cruciform, the top bearing the arms of England and France quartered, the right bearing the arms of Scotland, the bottom bearing the arms of England and France quartered and the left bearing the arms of Ireland. In the angles formed by adjoining shields are two intertwined C's. At the center is the Star of the Garter.
   
   Edge Inscription: * + * DECVS ET TVTAMEN
   (An Ornament and a Safeguard) {to deter edge clipping}
   
   Diameter: 40mm (initial issues large flan)
   
   Weight: 29.57gm
   
   1671 Issue
   
   
   CAROLVS·II·DEI·GRATIA .......................... MAG·BR·FRA·ET·HIB·REX·16(71)
   (Charles by the Grace of God) ........................... (King of Great Britain, France and Ireland)
   
   Obverse depiction: Draped laureate bust.
   
   Reverse depiction: Four crowned shields, cruciform, the top bearing the arms of England, the right bearing the arms of Scotland, the bottom bearing the arms of France and the left bearing the arms of Ireland. In the angles formed by adjoining shields are two intertwined C's. At the center is the Star of the Garter.
   
   Edge Inscription: * + * · DECVS · ET · TVTAMEN · ANNO · REGNI · VICESIMO · TERTIO
   (An Ornament and a Safeguard) {to deter edge clipping} - followed by date of minting information.
   
   Diameter: 38mm (diameter reduction from initial issues).
   
   Weight: 29.58gm (flan thickness increased slightly to maintain weight of silver content).

 

Is there a list somewhere of all the known counterstamps on these Cartwheels?

 

Well I really goofed up that post - sorry. I am having difficulty editing it to straighten it out. I meant to lead off the post by saying I set out to purchase another London Mint Tetrarchic follis but ended up buying these instead simply because they were available. I have always wanted a nice Charles II “first issue (1662) Rose crown” and I couldn’t resist this one. Through a “comedy of errors” I ended up with the 1671 coin also .......... it’s a long story. Anyway, please excuse the messy post.

I will post cartwheel pics later.

 

Here’s my twopence. One day I’ll get a penny.

 

These monster cartwheels were used pretty hard; I read somewhere apothecaries liked them because they weighed exactly 2 ounces (the 1d being 1 ounce). Countermarks, etc. were probably applied under these circumstances. Being unofficial, such countermarks would be hard to catalogue.

I've never seen one of these used as jewelry (it'd break your neck in a necklace!). But here's a Cartwheel tuppence that was turned into a bowl or wine porringer of some sort. Silver plated brass (plating worn off). The coin is in pretty good shape.

 

Baldwin’s always does good business. On this case, the man asked my budget for one and chose this example. I did see a proof penny, and the man helping me showed me the edge to show it was a proof. Pretty neat.

 

I always think the pattern cartwheel halfpennies and farthings are neat.

 

This has turned into the cartwheel twopence thread.

 

It’s called Thread Drift.

Yes, and I messed it up by interjecting my Charles II crowns - sorry, but I was actually responding to the original post which talked about starting out to buy a certain coin and ending up buying a completely different (or additional) one.

After reading all of the very interesting posts in this thread I thought it might be interesting in addition to list the various coin denominations in use in Britain when I was a boy in the 1930s and 1940s and our terminology and phonetical pronunciations relating to them - Lancashire (Lanky) dialect.

Twelve pennies=one shilling - Twenty shillings=one pound

Money was generically called “brass”.

Of course, Cartwheels had long ago disappeared from use as had crowns. Farthings were no longer in general use (I never used any and don’t remember seeing any being used) - 3 pence (for now) were the tiny silver issues until superseded by the new, larger and heavy nickel-brass twelve sided ones in the late 1930s.

Official Denomination .... What we called them (phonetical):

Half penny .................. (h)ape - née
Penny .......................... penny (two pennies was tuppence).
Three pence ................ threpp - ny - bit
Sixpence ...................... tanner
Shilling ........................ bob (twelve pence)
Florin ........................... two bob (twenty pence)
Half Crown .................. (h)arf-a-crown (two shillings and sixpence)

When I was a young schoolboy (approx. 1934 until 1939) I mostly was given/used half pennies and pennies - they would buy candy, etc. I got a sixpence on Saturday’s to go to the local cinema - Mickey Mouse club: cartoons, cowboy shorts - Buck Jones and Ken Maynard (no singing cowboys yet), Jungle Jim (no Tarzan yet) and Charlie Chan (a Tizer and Mars bar included). Tuppence (two pennies) bought the cheapest offering of chips at fish and chip shops - It was during the Depression and things were cheap (sorry for the digression).

BTW, paper currency was mostly ten shilling notes (ten bob) and one pound notes (quid). Five pound notes (very large size) were privy to the rich - I only ever saw one when I was a youngster.




Circulated Penny of my birth year

Obverse: George V, bare headed, facing left
Inscription: GEORGIVS V DEI GRA BRITT OMN REX FID DEF IND IMP
Reverse: Britannia wearing Corinthian helmet, seated left, holding trident with left hand and supporting shield with right hand
Inscription: ONE PENNY - 1929 (in exergue)

 

@jamesicus

I love the Charles II coins. Those are excellent. I have not ventured into the 17th century for my British coins...yet.

 

Not a bit! I like the restoration issues, even though I don’t own any.

 

I always find that interesting. Have you ever thought about buying any of the old ones? From what I can tell I have the same opinion as you when I looked at present day selling prices. Also, I brought back one of the polymer £5 notes when I went to Britain.

 

Quote jamesicus: BTW paper currency was mostly ten shilling notes (ten bob) and one pound notes (quid) Five pound notes (very large size) were privy for the rich - I only ever saw one when I was a youngster

and privy for the fish:

 

No, I have not @Milesofwho.