The Late Great Toned Coin Lie

No, I disagree. Morgans are not THE exception, but rather merely one noteworthy exception among MANY of them, to include large numbers of bust halves, Walking Liberty halves, long term rolled coins of many types and varieties, and frankly, ANY COIN which has been assiduously cared for.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Really? Less than 100 from 16 full bags? That comes out to 6 or 7 toners per 1,000. I need a better explanation than the bag surface. Way more than 6 or 7 per bag were in intimate contact with the canvas.

 

Because if the coins were kept in a temp./humidity controlled environment, I would think that most of them would not tone.

 

Garrett states that "Our only disappointment was the relatively small number of attractively toned coins. There are probably less than 100 examples with rainbow toning. I would have thought that 50 years of sitting in cloth bags would have produced a much different result in that regard. Nearly all of the coins are frosty white in appearance.”

The only coins that would have had ANY toning would have been those that were in direct contact with the bag itself. Those coins sandwiched between other coins within the bag would not have received any toning whatsoever. And even those in contact with the cloth bag are not guaranteed to tone. It is the Sulphur on the bag that causes the coins to tone. Not the cloth of the bag. Sulphur was liberally applied to the bags to keep rodents from chewing on the bags.

If the bags were stored in a humidity controlled vault, and if little Sulphur was applied directly to these bags, then the results are completely consistent with what one should expect.

Silver dollars not exposed to humidity and not exposed to Sulphur should not be expected to tone.

 

Both toning and wear are post-mint changes. With enough care, time and expertise, both can be created intentionally so as to be indistinguishable from that occurring unintentionally. It's a matter of simulating the "natural" conditions in an accelerated manner, but not too accelerated and knowing when to stop.

I own several toned silver coins but did not and would not pay a premium for them. I've also submitted coins for grading that I knew had "natural" toning because they had been stored for many decades only to have them come back as questionable color. I also own one certified lowball coin but bought it just to show non-collectors what a P01 looks like.

The supply of toned and lowball coins is and will continue be determined by demand because they can be created in a way that will get them into straight-graded slabs.

Cal

 

You will note he said RAINBOW toning, not just toning. Coins with intimate contact with the bag possibly toned dark, maybe gray or even black, not rainbow.

I'm note sure why he would think that. Pretty much every MS Morgan out there spent 50 years or more sitting around in cloth bags.

 

Never seen one with this amount of toning on both sides. I am no expert but it looks natural to me. I am going to have it graded cuz it's in great condition but I was wondering if anyone thinks I'm waisting my time. Thanks!!

 

Sorry, didn't mean to change the subject. This is the first time I've chatted on one of these so hopefully I'm not upsetting anyone.

 

I think that is Sulphur induced toning. In my humble opinion, I doubt that PCGS or NGC would grade it.

 

You do realize that Rainbow toned GSA Carson City Morgan dollars are VERY few and far between right??
Oddly enough- those CC Morgans sat around in bank vaults for 60+ years in mint bags.
Humidity/moisture in the air, changes in temperature to name just a few, are what adds fuel to the fire (so to speak).
Sadly, this isnt the big AAH-HAA moment you were hoping for Kurt
This is just more of your blatant bias and grinch-like disdain for Morgan Dollars.
The most popular and widely collected coin on planet earth

 

Thanks, was kinda thinking that was the case but was hoping for the best.

 

Actually, the most popularly collected One Dollar denominated coin is the American Silver Eagle, not the Morgan. Also, the CC dollars sat EXACTLY where the P’s, and O’s and S’s did - in Washington, DC, at the Dept. of the Treasury, where NONE of them were minted. The sad truth is that the Morgan dollar is number one at one thing - it is the most “messed with” coin on planet earth. Ironically enough, the ASE might also be gaining on it in that as well. I guess big hunks of silver just attract the wrong kind of crowd.

 

There is nothing natural about that coin. Sad.

 

Nearly every dealer I know has a "toner box." That INCLUDES some of the major players that sell at coin shows and have their own websites. Yes, the ones that you guys buy from!

 

At Dallas this March, one dealer with a corner booth had a case of toners on his “short side”. I noticed his two other cases had none. I asked. He almost “apologized” for the toners. They were on consignment for a friend that liked them. He doesn’t trade in them. Nuff said. He said toners are not well thought of in Texas. I dunno.

 

The really sad thing is... This could have been an interesting area in numismatics if it hadn't been completely ruined by the fast buck artists.

 

I agree with those members that think these brightly colored coins are a fad , and most are artificially done to suck in those who feel these are pretty. I think the majority of the toning is damage to the coin , and in time we will see how some of the chemicals used will affect the coins. These are mostly done by fast buck artists that are taking advantage of people for their money. How come the older silver coins never showed these bright colors until several years ago. the really old silver turns black as most does . But now there is bright pink 50 shades of purple and blues , greens and what ever color you like. Pretty soon you should be able to order by the color of your choice. Now saying what I did I do realize that some do turn color but not to the extremes that you see for sale on eBait or places like that.

 

Yes, it does seem “hotter” with the Internet Division of numismatics than with the In Person Division. And my disdain for the Internet Division is well documented.

 

I do agree with you kurt. Banks don't have window sills

 

No harm, no foul.