1909 matte proof cent ?

I believe I have a matte proof 09 cent the die is the second that was punched out towards the end of December and different form the first die. The rim is flat and sharp also has the color from the tissue paper that had a sulfar mix in paper. The edges drop str8 off and not rounded. Please take a look and advise what to do send in or just put it on auction without graded. Thanks in advance bi

 

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According to Kevin Flynn's book, there is only a single pair of dies used to strike the non VDB 1909 MP. Any other dies that might have been used have not been verified as to exist, as far as I know.

If you were to send it in I dont think the TPGs will call it a MPL. Atleast not by what Im seeing in these pics. If you could take better pics that would be nice.

As far as the rims, they arent square all the way around and it isnt uncommon for 1909 business strikes to have thicker squared rims. The edge is thick and sharp but doesnt convince me it is a Matte proof.

I also dont believe that is typical toning from the tissue paper matte proofs were sold in. But again better pics are needed.

If your coin doesnt show the markers typical of the known die pair then I dont think it has much chance to get an MP grade. Although PCGS made a mistake not too long ago. Even IF it by some chance is verified as a MPL, I think it would get an impaired grade. And thats a big IF.

But like i said better pics would be helpful.

 

Thank you. According to Kevin Flynn in 2010 he found a different die punch for the matte finish I have several 09 cents and the granular finish and characteristics are so different so about the pictures best I can do

 

Not a matte proof IMO.

 

Well send it in. It's your money. Like I said, IF it is a matte proof it seems to be impaired. To me it looks like it saw some time in circulation, judging by the gunk in the lettering.
I also see rims that are similar to those on business strike 1909's.
I too have many high grade, granular Lincolns that resemble MPLs and they are all business strikes. Just beacuse the surfaces are grainy doesnt mean matte proof.

 

That's not a matte proof.

 

I think it was struck with early dies, the only photo that has any resemblance is the 3rd side, that only means that there was a strong collar involved ( or early die state). To be convinced I would need to see the die markers. With enough research on CT you can find them.

 

Focus a pic on R in liberty and his suit. Should have a line from the r to his suit. South east dirrection

 

Also should have a blotch( die marker ) close to the tip of wheat (right) snap a pic of that too

 

I'm chasing one right now. Listen to these guys. Their big help. But remember. You have coin in hand. Do your homework and then argue your point if your sure. Good luck to both of us

 

Not a matte proof, rims are not square.

 

Well check this article out it discusses a new found die for the matte proof 09 cent

https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered

 

Gentlemen check this article from pcgs about a new die found for matte proof 09

https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered

 

cheech read this though.
The three of us talked about the coin and agreed it would be a good idea for Kevin to take the coin, photograph it, study the diagnostics and render his opinion about the coin's proof status. After a careful study of the coin, Kevin Flynn made this statement about Charmy's 1909 MPL cent:

"I analyzed Charmy's coin and found it to be a new 1909 MPL cent die which is not listed in my Lincoln Cent Matte Proof book, or in Albrecht. It will be listed in the second edition of my book in a few years.

 

https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered please view the entire article thanks

 

https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered please read the article

 

https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered

here's the emtire article https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered

 

In hand it looks so much sharper and grainy. And the color from the tissue paper matches my coin in the right light. read this please- https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered

 

Are you familiar with Patrick Glenn a well known cent collector? He felt that i possibly have one all the signs were there for him to say that. He was aware for the last die that is thought to be created in december and the last ones were minted around that time. https://pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered

 

Thanks for the article, I did not know a new die was found for the matte proofs, very interesting. To you coin, it's not a matte proof, again the rim is clearly beveled which is diagnostic of all matte proofs, even the new die found here, quote from the article,

'The rims were polished and wide and were squared with sharp edges. The fields also ramped up quickly to the inner rim edge, again supporting it being a Matte Proof. Most of the letters and numbers were bold and squared'

You coin does not exhibit those characteristics. I'll tell you a little story, I found a beautiful 1909 cent in circulation, low MS and toned. I must have looked at the coin for 2 weeks, comparing it to the matte proof diagnostics. One day I would be convinced it was a proof, the next I would second guess. Over time, I started to be more objective with the coin and realized that it was just a nice 1909 coin.