Grading Services

Arizona Jack I have to agree with you.

In the past year the TPG's pretty much proved to the world that they will put whatever you want to see on a holder as long as you hand over your money to them. Remember the "first strikes"? What a scam that was and look how much money the TPG's made from that one. Do I trust them? Not since then.

 

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Interesting point Jack and one that has been debated for sooo long.

On the rare occasions I slab I do it through my dealer. He slabs a lot more coins and does it for many customers. We get enough to send in a decent lot then send them in. Works out well for everyone.

We (customers) get a better rate and he can write it off on his taxes. Worth looking into.

 

Not saying I disagree here Doug with a J but who would you consider the tightest and why?

Personally I lean towards ANACS.

Feel free to shoot me down as long as you explain.

clembo

 

Grading services are a great way to waste some money, instead of spending money, spend some time and learn to grade and authenticate yourself.

If your worried about having a nice holder.......well go here.

http://www.air-tites.com/Coin_World_Coin_Slabs.htm

 

I see the difference between NGC & PCGS regarding certain designations (FBL, DMPL, FB & FS) but how do the two compare on how they assign a grade to a coin?

 

I apologose for the crabby remark, but I'm going to let it stay unedited. I'll explain it in short, hopefully ,in more diplomatic way

Pricing. It is nearly impossible for a small time collector to have any coins slabbed with the fee structure. Even a a set of wheat cents is impractical to attempt when the cost per coin is $30 plus shipping. Oh, don't even ask for an " opinion ", that cost $20 MORE per coin ( which got me a bit riled today). Unless you have roll quantity and bulk submit, forget it. A YN or a new collector trying to build a grading set, forget it.

Try to call in about your wheat cent order and speak to David Hall about it. LOL.

The 09-S post recently. I was able to call ICG and speak directly with Paul DeFelice. He voiced his concerns with me, and, get this, offered to expedite my shipping due to the return policy I was working with. I explained the seller had extended it for me, no bother, but thank you very very much. No extra $20 for the opinion or the "Vice Presidential" Review.

Perhaps I use the term "tightest standards" because it is an industry perception and a bad habit of mine. I actually cannot say thats true from my experience.

As a set builder of Lincolns, I do have both NGC, PCGS uncirc slabbers in my sets, and well, have seen and posted doggers from both companys in 66RD, that we all agreed on, were not 66 at all. I have the other end of the spectrum from both as well. 66RD's that I cannot find any logical explanation why not a 67.

Todays letter from PCGS just made me shake my head. They, in my opinion ( if a letter in the mail can....) appeared arrogant, aloof, and not at all interested in my lil wheat pennys.....

 

My aplogoies are due to SouthGal for the hijacking of this thread.

 

Welcome to the mad world of Numismatics.

If you are interested in buying graded, (slabbed), coins then the advise from CT members on who is more trust worthy should be evident. If you are planning to have some of your coins slabbed, you'll do better to wait for a while, a year or two, maybe more, before you decide to spend your hard earned money on this process.

KEEP THIS IS MIND THOUGH... Slabbed coins come with a premium price because it cost someone to get it slabbed. Example - Lets say you have a Mint State (MS) mercury dime that you paid $10.00 - $15.00 for. At this point in the coin game you don't know what MS grade it is but you find out that if its a 67 or higher it should be worth hundreds of dollars. So you want it slabbed and get the grade definded. You send it off to one of these companies along with $25.00 and eventually it comes back slabbed with a grade of MS64. You look this up and find that this coin is worth less then $10.00-$15.00 that you paid and your out grading/slabbing fees. Later, years maybe, you learn about Merc. dimes and find that if you only knew then what you know today you would have never spent or thrown away your money like that.

It takes years to learn how to grade coins. Each denomination and type has its own specific criteria for grading. My advise is to start now and learn about the coins you want to collect. The ones you intend to spend major money on in the long run. Perserve the raw coins you buy...learn about that. Then one day, I garuantee, you will start to see what you have for what it really is. Let the other inexperienced collectors fund the grading service market. The coins are what they are and will always be that way if perserved.

Good luck and have fun collecting!!!

 

$25???

$30 for grading, $5 " handeling fee" and $25 return shipping

Gee, add $20 for an opinion

 

I disagree with this, it simply is not always true.

 

HAHHAHA that's nothing, try opening/maintaining an account with Ameritrade...

 

That's the hole point. That's way to much money for an opinion that can't be justified 100%. Just like it has been reported here, send the same coin 10 times to the same company and see what variations you get.

I have never sent anything to be graded so I don't know what it actually costs. I do know that I would rather spend that money on coins for my collection. However I have purchased several slabbed coins because: a. The price was right, b. I use the MS65 grade as a learning tool in grading my own coins and c. I need the coin and cracked it out when I recieved it.

 

tpg comparisons

then why does it seem that prices advertised for pcgs are usually higher than ngc......even for the exact same graded coin?

steve

 

It is called reputation.

I subscribe to the Grey Sheet (Coin Dealer Newsletter). On the front page of the weekly newsletter is the 'Coin Dealer Newsletter Certified Coin Market Indicator' which gives percentages of their "sight seen" values (in other words, the prices dealers paid other dealers for coins they actually saw) that slabbed coins sold for (dealer to dealer) "sight unseen". This is a good indicator of how dealers value the grading services' grading.

CDN samples 10 US coin series (2 grades each for 20 coins total) and compares the prices dealers paid for the coins - sight unseen - to the prices dealers paid for the same coins in the same grades - sight seen - (the values indicated in the Grey Sheet) and averaged the results.

Below are the results from the latest issue (12/21/07):

PCGS - 82.69%
NGC - 77.86%
ICG - 74.13%
ANACS - 56.91%
PCI -49.37%
SEGS - 48.73%
NCI - 39.31%
INS - 27.94%

It is obvious that dealers have a much higher degree of confidence in the grading of PCGS, NGC and ICG and very little confidence in the grading of NCI and INS.

Think of it this way. If a dealer receives a phone call offering him - sight unseen - a slabbed MS-65 1891-S Morgan dollar (Grey Sheet bid = $1,000) he would probably offer $863 if it is in a PCGS holder, $779 if it is in an NGC holder or $741 if it is in an ICG holder. But he would only offer $393 if it is in an NCI holder and only $279 if it is in an INS holder. (These prices are based on the averages of the 10 different coin series. The figures may vary for a particular series.)

Looking at it another way, if several collectors had identical collections of slabbed coins graded by a TPG listed above, dealers would be willing to pay - sight unseen - 6.2% more for the collection graded by PCGS than the collection graded by NGC and almost 3 times as much (2.96) as the collection graded by INS.

One can also see that dealers don't trust PCGS implicitely because they are only willing to pay 82.69% of a coin's Grey Sheet price if that coin is in a PCGS holder and they are not able to see the coin first.

 

Okay,

Finally getting back on this and as AZJack stated "Sorry we hijacked your thread SouthGal" but considering none of us are talking about NPG that should really answer your question.

From what you have listed Doug (with a J) NGC has much stricter standards. Now I rarely slab coins and honestly haven't done much comparison but IF they hold up to their standards then they are obviously much more strict than PCGS.

PCGS still gets the attention though as we all know. I have not agreed with their circulated Standing Liberty Quarter grading for years. If I go by ANA book I buy VG coins that are F12 all of the time. Come to a semi key/key date like the 27-S and that starts to mean something to the person that "buys the slab".
At that point it's worth it to send in a bunch of VGs for the F12 grade to turn them at a nice profit even AFTER slabbing fees.

PCGS has really built up the "prestige" factor through the registry sets as well. I have a friend that has a very nice collection(s) of Morgans. He's all PCGS. Cracks out NGC and even PCGS to resubmit to get that grade. He has also done multiple resubmissions on the same coin(s). Not my cup of tea as it were.

I buy coins because I like them not PCGS, NGC, ANACS or any other TPG service.
Yes, I will end up slabbing many of them but not of the "prestige". It will be for my wife if something happens to me. I want her to get top dollar and as much I'd like to pass them along to a "real" collector if I'm gone I just want her to get the best money possible. Kinda sucks doesn't it?....but I'm being honest about it.


The ONE point you made that did irritate me was that NGC has chenged their standards on FS Jefferson Nickels. Wow, let's just give in to public pressure here.

In short (or long) that's what I think. I think a lot of other things as well as you know. I'm sure those thoughts will surface as well.

clembo

 

I'll add a PCGS thingy, I hate to do but,

There has been a large sustained run of common 1909VDB's on Teletrade, and I have picked up a bunch of NGC coins 64RD,65RD and 65RB WAY cheaper than their PCGS counterparts. I look at this as silly, but it is reality. ANACS, in these auctions is the redheaded stepchild, not much respect goin on there at all.

All coins I bought were compared coin/coin, not plastic/plastic. Is there a difference between a $105 NGC 65RD and a $180 PCGS 65RD? Yep, $75.

Will I attempt to crossover? NO. Will I crack out ? Perhaps. Will I enjoy my savings? Oh Yeah !!!

 

Why wont NGC give you those if they have nothing to hide? and if they dont have one then what?