Gold Octodrachm of Ptolemy III found in Egypt...

Here is a link to the story...

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/05/31/2200-year-old-gold-coin-discovered-in-egypt.html

A pretty rare coin from what I can remember. According to the story, it was found at San el-Hagar in the Nile Delta north of Cairo, amongst the ruins of a Greco-Roman building now being excavated.

Here's another one of the type...

 

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I saw that story the other day. Lovely coin. It definitely tells us quite a bit about Ptolemy III, he was a bit overweight, had a nice necklace, and the scaled armor is definitely a nice touch. I also love that snake clips between the reverse and obverse scale armor together. I'd imagine that crown must not have very comfortable. That's a lot of hefty gold to have on your head all day, especially without padding. If I had to guess he probably had a wig (Egyptian style) which kept the crown from pressing down on his head, but still, it couldn't have been all that comfortable (unless he only wore it for state functions).

I am surprised though at the imperfections of the die, as seen by the blobs on the fields of the coin. I would have imagined such high status coins would have received a little more quality control.

 

What do you suppose that coin would fetch on the market?

 

North of $20,000 USD. However, due to the documented provenance of where it was found, I wouldn't be surprised if it fetched higher at an auction.

 

What an amazing find!! It sounds like it was just sitting on the surface of the ground, which is a sort of miracle itself.

 

Here is a fun fact, other than Ptolemy I, Ptolemy III was the least incestuous member of that dynasty. He only married his cousin, Berenice II...



But his dad, and then subsequently his son, all had sister-wives. I'm surprised the Cleopatra from Caesar's time wasn't blue skinned or had a Habsburg jaw from all the incest.

And of course, my favorite, Ptolemy IX. He had a sister-wive and kind of a mother-wife thing going on at the same time.

 

Yeah I saw something on the History Channel recently about Tutankhamun and the genetic problems he inherited from centuries of inbreeding, weak bones, lack of resistance to disease, and other factors. The Ptolemies apparently picked up the tradition of sister-wives from the Egyptians to keep the royal blood in the family.

 

They minted a lot of these coins and the dies developed pronounced rust, especially around the crown, which indicates that they were used for longer than they should have been. My example has a bit of this die rust: I sacrificed a bit of die perfection in favor of the condition/centering of the rest of the coin.

For those who haven't held one, I highly recommend doing so whenever you get a chance (at a coin show or auction lot viewing). They are hefty and really feel like true money, even though they weren't produced for circulation.



And, because she's referenced in the article, his famous ancestor, Cleopatra:



And, because no thread is worth having without forcing historical figures to sit adjacent to those who overthrew them, Octavian's Aegypto Capta denarius, which celebrates Cleopatra's/Antony's defeat, resulting in Egypt becoming a Roman province:

 

Here's a coin of Berenice II that was struck in Marathos. Out of curiosity, who was Berenice I ??. And are Berenice and Berenike the same?

 

I really enjoy the Oktadrachm! Beautiful coin. When you point out the rusting die issue in the Radiate Crown, I understand the issue. However, the centering, the clarity of strike overshadows that "issue".

I collect world gold, and have limited Ancient Gold. I agree with the "heft" of a coin approaching 1TOZ is a fantastic weight. You "feel" the coin. Anything over 1/2TOZ is what a coin "SHOULD" feel! (I assume yours is around 26-28g).

As to heft, I love the feel of this approx 1/4TOZ Ancient. I have shown this before, but they are fun Ancients to hold. I love specific gravity!


Africa, Zeugutana, Carthage
Anonymous (s. BC 310-290)
EL Dekadrachm (Stater)
18.5 mm x 7.27 grams
Obverse: Wreathed head of Tanit left, eleven pendants on necklace; pellet before neck
Reverse: Horse standing right; two pellets below exergue line
Ref:Jenkins & Lewis Group V, 259–79; MAA 10; SNG Copenhagen 975

Where is @panzerman ?

 

LOL, thanks. I enjoy my Deka, but it is funny how it is HALF the weight of @AncientJoe 's Okta! About a hundred years between them, and different Empires...

I have shown this before, also. But, well, GOLD is actually rare in the Universe and are produced by heavy-weight single-star Super-Novas - that is just INCREDIBLE! Here is another one around that same 1/4TOZ size from a lot earlier:


PERSIA, Achaemenid Empire. temp. Darios I to Xerxes II. Circa 485-420 BC. AV Daric (14mm, 8.30 g). Lydo-Milesian standard. Sardes mint. Persian king or hero, wearing kidaris and kandys, quiver over shoulder, in kneeling-running stance right, holding spear in right hand, bow in left / Incuse punch. Carradice Type IIIb, Group A/B (pl. XIII, 27); Meadows, Administration 321; BMC Arabia pl. XXIV, 26. VF. Well centered and struck. Approx 1/4TOZ

 

The weight standard for these Ptolemaic octodrachms is actually a bit more significantly different, about 4x heavier. Here's the full attribution:

"Ptolemaic Kingdom. Ptolemy III Euergetes. Gold Mnaieion (27.87 g), 246-222 BC. Alexandria, under Ptolemy IV, ca. 219-217 BC. Bust of the deified Ptolemy III right, wearing radiate diadem and aegis; at shoulder, trident with middle prong ending in a lotus finial. Reverse: BAΣIΛEΩΣ ΠTOΛEMAIOY, radiate and filleted cornucopia; below, ΔI. Svoronos 1117; SNG Copenhagen 196"

 

@AncientJoe was the obverse type supposed to be associated with Poseidon? I kind of thought that the trident and scales on his cloak, or armor, looked like this.

 

You're correct, and there's a bit more to the story according to some scholarly work (especially by Otto Morkholm): Ptolemy III is depicted with the crown of Helios, the aegis of Zeus, and the trident of Poseidon which, combined, make him the master of the three elements: sky, earth, and sea.

 

I also wanted to say that if you're a specific gravity fan like I am, I would suggest buying a 1kg cylinder of elemental tungsten. I paid ~$200 for mine several years ago off of eBay and it still sits on my desk, making a great conversation piece and such an incredible in-hand feel to pick up.

I also have a chunk of iridium and made the mistake of not placing it gently into the glass jar in which I stored it, promptly shattering the jar!

 

What a GREAT idea! LOL, big fun to have a big 1k hunk of that metal. I only have a small piece of Iridium, so I do not appreciate its SG as much...

Early in my career, I was involved in developing Lithium into batteries (yeah, I am not a youngin') Our controlled-environment development room had an under 1% humidity - we could only work in them under 2 hours. Pretty cool metal. Unfortunately, at the time I was playing the role as Accountant, so I was not allowed to play in that sandbox too much. But, I did control all of our precious metals including silvers, golds, and other fun stuff.

Growing up and when I was collecting Moderns, we were not allowed to own gold. When that law was changed (1974?), I started getting gold coins. Have several World gold, but have not deep-dived into Ancient Gold as I would like.

For some reason, this little devil caught my eye:

Neat detail on a small flan...

Carthage - Zeugitana AV 1-10th Stater-Shekel 350-320 BCE 0.94g 7.5mm Palm- Horse Head

 

Good questions!

There were several women named “Berenice” within Greek lands during that era. In fact, more than one of them was associated with Ptolemy III. And as though that does not make research difficult enough, ‘Berenice’ and ‘Berenike’ are indeed both acceptable spellings.

Ptolemy III had an older sister named Berenice -- Berenice (or Berenike) Phernophorus. And Ptolemy III married a woman named Berenice (or Berenike) -- Berenice II, his cousin (as has been pointed out), and who is sometimes referred to as Berenice of Cyrene rather than Berenice II.

It is good to keep in mind that Berenice I (different from the two ladies just mentioned above), was the wife of Ptolemy I, and her image also appears on Ptolemaic coinage.

I’ve seen some Svoronos numbers with descriptions stating the female portrait contained is “Berenice I or II”; (ex.’s: Svor_317, Svor_318, Svor_321.)

Verily! Methinks 'tis wise to exert caution with the name Berenice/Berenike (and related portraiture and attributions) when researching Ptolemaic coinage.

BTW: I don't yet own a Berenike II portrait. Anybody have a nice extra? If so, feel free to mail it to me and I'll research it carefully... indefinitely! :-D