If it looks like Brass and It sounds Like Brass, then it must be Brass, right? Rhode Island Token

Well, I have not done the sound test with this Rhode Island Token, but to me it looks more yellowish than reddish, so I assume it is probably brass.

The sound test consists of slightly tapping the object - Brass rings 'lively", whereas copper sounds 'dead' (according to what I have read). I have no done this yet, but will at the first chance I get. Want to see though if you agree with my assessment that it from its appearance, it is likely brass.

(Obviously, one can do elemental analysis for metallic tin, which is a major part of brass compositions. However, this is no within my scope at the moment).

What do you guys think? The pictures reflect the true colour of the token.

 

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Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. No tin.
Bronze is an alloy of copper, zinc and tin.

 

It looks more like brass than copper to me. I like how they spelt Yland.

 

I stand corrected. Not tin, but Zinc.

 

Thank you, Pickin and Grinin. It looks more like brass than copper to me as well. However, I have seen large cents which have this brassy color as too, so the color test may not be 100% conclusive.
This token exists in both brass and copper, and with and without the wreath under the ship. (I believe there are also a few strikes in pewter which are quite rare).

 

Color test is NOT diagnostic, nor is the ping test, nor is weight or specific gravity. Even an XRF test isn't completely diagnostic but it is the best you can do with non-destructive tests.

 

Thanks, Conder. I was looking at HA archives this morning which lists 144 sold listings for this token.
How do they, or the TPGs for that matter conclude then apparently so unequivocally, that a particular example is either copper or brass?

 

Breen does not list any in copper. Whitman's Colonial and Early American Coins also doesn't list any as copper but W-1730 is listed as Brass or related copper alloy. However, your coin looks like Breen-1141 Betts 563 W-1740. Both Breen and Whitman only list this as Brass.

Colonials aren't my specialty, so I'm just passing on what is in the reference books. Based on that info plus the appearance, I would say it's brass.

(BTW: just to be complete, these tokens are also listed in pewter)

 

XRF or SEM/EDS can give you a good idea if the person analyzing the data 1) knows the limitations of the equipment, 2) has a general understanding of the numismatic information (where, when, who made the coin/planchets) and 3) a little background in metallurgy or material science.

Not a 100% slam dunk but if you have knowledgeable people in those 3 areas, you can usually be reasonably confident about the conclusions

 

Eduard, posted: "How do they, or the TPGs for that matter conclude then apparently so unequivocally, that a particular example is either copper or brass?"

As one member wrote, by color.

It is not a scientific thing and the folks who wrote the reference books long ago did not analyze stuff. Our Lincoln cents are not copper but we call them copper due to their color. As soon as a piece looks a little more yellow rather than "red" or "brown." It's called Brass. A streaked alloy "Shell Case" cent shows the difference well. A good study is to look at the colors of CWT to develop an "eye" for these metals. Again, it is not scientific. If it were, many things we call copper would be found to be a brass alloy!

 

Thanks Oldhoopster. Another one for Brass then.
The Red Book that I have lists Copper and Brass specimens, with and without the wreath below the ship, and pewter examples without the wreath.

 

@Eduard I just took a look at HA and they do list a number of W-1740 in Copper. I wonder if they really did an elemental analysis or if the based it color and "experience" (like @Insider said).

Since the zinc content of brass can vary and it can be fuzzy where the line is drawn between Copper with some zinc in it and Brass, I suspect that they are going by "eye" (just my guess)

 

It just looks "brassy" to me. best I can do!