Are these Die Cracks?

Quality Control dictates that, yes, that is when the die needs to be replaced. But, Mint employees follow the orders of their superiors and if told to crank out 100,000 coins before replacing the dies, that's what they do, unless the die shatters.

Much like Rear Admiral David Farragut, who asked "What's the trouble?" when he saw his attacking ships begin to fall back after one hit a mine in the bay and sank. Floating mines were called torpedoes back then and the response from USS Brooklynn to Farragut on his flagship USS Hartford was "Torpedoes!". Farragut ordered through his trumpet cone: "Damn the torpedoes! Four bells, Captain Drayton, go ahead. Jouett, full speed".

You get the idea. BTW, Farragut won the battle and was promoted to Vice Admiral. The Mint employees collected their pay.

Wikipedia has a good bio on Farragut...Spark

 

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LOL this thread is going on a long time

 

I know it isn't worth much, but I'm seeing 1982 D pennies with one die crack for $3.30 they are really pushing it there.

 

Well, there you go...list your tripleCrack for $9.90. Although, you could apply a power factor to it...3 times 3 times 3...$27.00. When you consider the scarecity of coins (in this case cents) exhibiting 3 die cracks, that logic does not seem so far-fetched...Spark

 

why is there a third 3?

 

Because you have a third crack. 1 crack = $3, 2 cracks = $9, 3 cracks = = $27.

This is, of course, all supposing you find that buyer who feels $27 is worth it for a 3-crack cent.

There is a famous Morgan $ that has a die break from rim to rim across the middle of the obverse and it sold very high, I'll have to research for details, I read about it several years ago. The point is the length, width and placement of the cracks determine the interest crack collectors have for these types of errors.

Spark

 

oh ok that makes sense

 

No, your premise is wrong. As is the idea of other here that the number of cracks someone influences value.

Starting with the caveat that generalizing across collector specializations is difficult, we can look at other areas to determine what drives value. Coin values are based on supply and demand, for arguments sake let's hold demand constant and consider why coins with lots of cracks may sell for a premium. Coins like large cents, bust halves, and Morgan dollars are all collected by die variety (specific obverse and reverse die pairing), and sometimes even by die stage.

When a die starts to fails it leaves die cracks and possible cuds (we will get back to this latter), which are all diagnostic of the specific die. If this happens late in the life of the die, then those markers generally do not add much value because the variety is common. However, occasionally a die fails early in it's life. When that happens the die cracks are diagnostic of a rare variety, and it is the rareness of the variety that drives the price. The idea that die cracks add value comes from a spurious correlation, some coins with die cracks sell for a very large premium, but the value is not due to die cracks per se, it's due to those specific die cracks being diagnostic of a rare variety.

Back to cuds as an aside. The typical die is taken out of use when it either wears out or starts to crack. In rare cases the die is left in use util pieces of the die actually break off and fall away, producing cuds. Cuds are almost always valuable as they represent a very unusual ending to a die. But again, at the point where a die breaks itself the die is generally removed very quickly, making coins with cuds rare. With that said, in large cents specifically some rare cuds can sell for large multiples of the variety price because they are known by <5 examples, while coins like the 52N6 have 100+ known with cuds and sell for only a small premium. As with die cracks, the value in cuds comes from the fact that the production issues that caused the cud also generally create a very limited supply. This is simply not the case with die cracks, where hundreds of thousands of coins can be struck with the same die cracks.

Now back to the Lincoln cents which started this discussion. First off, I know of very few collectors who collect these by variety. The mintage is simply too high and the diagnostic features are simply too small. The entire run of large cents used ~1,000 die pairings, from 1793 to 1856. That's not even 1 year of cent mintage. Only specific varieties of Lincoln cents are recognized by the community as important, these are generally the double dies, and for some odd reason the transitional AM coins. But outside of that, there is very little collector interest in random variety coins, and again the die cracks are not in and off themselves all that interesting to collectors, but are valuable if they are diagnostic for a variety that is in demand.

To summarize, die cracks are diagnostic of a coin variety, or specific pairing of dies. If the cracks attribute a rare variety with high demand than the coin is valuable. In this case, the cracks attribute a variety (likely common but could be rare) with no collector interest, which is why it has no premium.

Lastly, with that all out of the way, I find this area of numismatics very, very interesting. For someone who truly loves to study coins, modern Lincoln cent varieties (and associated die stages) offers fertile collecting grounds with the ability to research large uncharted areas, and to do so at very minimal cost. So please don't take the above as discouraging your interest or trying to lower the status of your coin. It's lack of dollar value is simply due to lack of interest and the massive mintage of Lincoln cents, but from the right perspective that's a blessing.

 

To clarify. The mint is pressing these at multiple coins/second! With any high speed, automated process a tech and/or QC Inspector will check at regular intervals to make sure if everything is running. The die pair may make tens of thousands of coins between checks. If a crack happens between checks, it could make a lot of coins. And, as with any automated manufactured product, I'm sure they have specific criteria on when to change dies.

I'm not sure this is how you calculate value. While die cracks are mint produced errors, they are relatively minor and don't carry much, if any premium. Dramatic cracks that bisect the coin or produce retained cuds have some value, but minor ones like this are generally only worth face value. Even a multiple minor cracks on the same coin really don't add much. You may be able to get something on eBay, but go to any coin show or shop (that has errors) and it's unusual to see coins like this in stock. Why Because they can be found in circulation and collectors won't pay for a premium.

IMO, die cracks are cool and I enjoy finding them, but don't expect to walk into a dealer and sell them for a fortune.

 

Why would I sell it at a coin show? when ebay I can push the price more?

 

Hey thanks guys, I learned something new about coins today, so in essence die cracks have no premium as to the double die does. value based on condition of the error and not how stressed the die was.

Q? if I may, i'm trying to find out the history of a Chinese coin and researched the forums here with no luck. Would like to have some links or information of a good site to refer to as I think I have a very 'good' keeper.

Again, thnx guys, have a good day

 

By all means, put it on ebay, you may end up paying someone to buy it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-LINCO...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Value is based on supply and demand. Die cracks are very, very, very common on Lincolns and the collector demand for them is basically 0. Die cracks that indicate a rare large cent variety may sell for $1,000 or more, but not because of die cracks per se, but because it's a rare variety.

Again, it's supply and demand, you need to understand the market to understand if/why a coin has value. There are no blanket rules to apply.

 

So is he wrong?

 

No. He stated very clearly that there is no demand for die cracks, but that the die cracks are valuable in ascertaining variety/rarity. My excercise in logic is possible, you may be able to sell it for $27, but it isn't probable...Spark

 

Try listing it on eBay for $3, you may attract some interest. Higher than that is, as you said earlier, pushing it...Spark

 

@beefer1020...your post #48 was very illuminating and informative, thank you for taking the time to share. I had always thought the die crack was the feature wanted, and not used as a diagnostic.

Now I have a better understanding of die cracks and their usefulness...Spark

 

@beef1020 ...sorry, got your handle wrong...Spark

 

I might be going crazy,but is this another die crack?

 

There are some bubbles on the coin too scattered all over the place on the coin as well.