Septimius Severus Dupondius & Elagabalus As - Weight Discrepancies?

I just got a couple of low-grade Roman copper/brass coins that I've been having a lot of fun tracking down. There's been a lot of posts about weight differences between the various denominations through time - these two are sort of an interesting case study for wobbly weights, I thought (or, I have my attributions wrong).

That these are almost the same diameter is interesting too, although the SS is brass (you can see this on the bust where the patina is worn away), while the Elagabalus is more like pure copper. When new, I am guessing it would be much easier to tell the denominations apart (I assume these circulated around the same time).

Septimius Severus Dupondius (RIC 697): weighs only 8.97 grams. I thought for sure it was an as, but the bust is clearly radiate, and there doesn't seem to be a ROMAE AETERNAE except for the dupondius. This appears to be a fairly scarce coin, not in Wildwinds, and I could find only 3 others - 2 in the British Museum weigh around 12 grams. A nice one in a French auction is lighter than mine (though less worn): 7.89 grams.

Elagabalus As (RIC 341): weighs 11.75 grams. Numismatics.org shows this as being pretty much the average weights (thought there were not a lot of samples).

This is a somewhat new area for me (I really got into Roman AEs only a little over a year ago). I know there's been lots of interesting posts on weights/size theories and examples. Hope this isn't plowing over old territory, but I'd like to see some other Severan AEs, weights and 3rd century chaos theories, etc....





Septimius Severus
Rome Mint - Æ Dupondius
(c. 195 A.D.)
L SEPT SEV PERT [AVG IMP V], radiate head right / [ROMAE AETERN]AE
C, Roma seated left on shield, holding Victory in right hand, spear in left hand.
RIC 697; BMC/RE 139.
(8.97 grams / 24 mm)

Elagabalus Æ As
(c. 219-220 A.D.)
Rome Mint
IMP CAES M AVR ANTONINVS PIVS AVG, laureate draped bust right /ADVENTVS AVGVSTI, SCbelow, emperor on horseback left, holding baton.
RIC 341; Cohen 7; BMC 365.
(11.75 grams / 25 mm)

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I thought I'd take a stab at digging into this a little bit since no one else was. In my Googling, I found 2 examples of SS dupondii on Forvm, one with your reverse and the other with a different reverse but also struck at that time (195AD with "IMP V"), both just above the 13g weight.

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=26488&pos=12

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=26488&pos=13

Also, in looking in Sellars'
The Monetary System of the Romans
I found a table showing early Severan era dupondii averaging 12.2g:

https://books.google.com/books?id=m_Y-CgAAQBAJ&pg=PA212&lpg=PA212&dq=typical dupondius weights septimius 195AD&source=bl&ots=F1GArFGQay&sig=M3nnw62pUcdaRdokhBOxCicVQBE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhit7m7PvaAhUr9IMKHcouCbEQ6AEIPzAG#v=onepage&q=typical dupondius weights septimius 195AD&f=false

 

Also, using the OCRE, I stepped forward and backward in RIC's to see what the other dupondii of 195AD were weighing in at. Most were around the 12-13g.

But RIC 698 showed an example from ANS at 23mm and 8.95g:
http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.ss.698

And from the year earlier 194AD, BM lists an example that is 9.253g:
http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.ss.680

And two years earlier, 193AD, BM lists 2 examples at 9.17g and 6.57g:
http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.ss.660

 

Justin Lee, you are a fine researcher - this is some really good stuff here. Thank you for all the digging.

Here are two SS dupondii like mine, from European auctions, both light weight:

376 SeptimiusSeverus,193-211n.Chr.AEDupondius(8,50g).195n.Chr.Mzst.Rom.Vs.:LSEPTSEVPERTAVGIMPV,KopfmitStrahlenkronen.r.Rs.:ROMAEAE-T-ERNAE/S-,RomamitViktoriau.Lanzesitztn.l.
auf Schild. RIC 697; C. 617; BMC 564; Hill, Severus 159. Grüne Patina,fast vz 500,–ExPeus329,1990,503.
https://www.gmcoinart.de/templates/images/muenzen/Kataloge/gm_auktion_203_katalog.pdf

This one, from another auction, is 7.89 grams.

https://www.cgbfr.com/septime-severe-dupondius-ttb-,brm_456658,a.html

 

I never could bring myself to decide between these two dupondii of the type. One has much more detail but lousy surfaces. The wear on the second one probably accounts for much of the weight difference.

12.1g

10.2g


We should mention a special 'class' of Severan asses called 'cast in Gaul' (coulee en Galle) in Cohen. These are underweight ancient copies often sold in the trade without mention of their being unofficial. I would like to know more about them. I do note that an unusually high percentage seem to be 'better' types from a collector's viewpoint which makes them more questionable in my view. Finding anything on the subject has not been easy. Help!

5.2g