Hi, I know nothing about coins. Among my late father's possessions (in England) was a brooch, very yellow un-hallmarked gold with a coin set in it. The pin on the back is broken. I have attached 2 photos. I'm just interested to know what the coin is. I have searched around but I haven't managed to find an image that matches it. I guess it's Roman. I wonder if any of you coin experts would be so kind as to offer an opinion? Thanks in advance. Patrick
Hi Patrick, I'm sorry for your loss. Based on those images it's hard to say if it is authentic or if it is a jeweler's copy of an ancient coin. That's Athena (wearing the helmet) on the obverse. The reverse is a little difficult to see in that picture but I think it depicts the first labor of Herakles: wrestling the Nemean lion. What is the approximate diameter of the coin? Here's an example: https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=351521 412, Lot: 7. Estimate $150. Sold for $300. This amount does not include the buyer’s fee. CALABRIA, Tarentum. Circa 325-280 BC. AR Diobol (11.5mm, 1.20 g, 9h). Helmeted head of Athena right, with wreath on the bowl / Herakles, holding club, strangling the Nemean Lion. Vlasto 1339–43; HN Italy 976. VF, toned, porous. Well centered. Ex MM Collection (Classical Numismatic Group Electronic Auction 397, 17 May 2017), lot 7; Gorny & Mosch 224 (13 October 2014), lot 24.
I'm leaning towards authentic but it's probably not possible to determine without an in-hand inspection by someone more knowledgeable than me. And is it an obverse die match to the CNG coin I posted? I think it might be. Edited to add pictures. I think it might be a die match for both sides. The size looks right too (just noticed that you have a scale in the images for size-- good job )
Its refreshing to see someone actually curious about what his relative left him, instead of the first word out of their mouth being "How much can I sell this for?" Not that there is anything wrong with selling something someone left you, especially if you are not into it, but it's nice to see a question about the coin first....you know, a little curiosity is never a bad thing.
I'd like to mention that the pin back can be fixed but the coin can not be removed from this type of item without compromise. I am less certain than TIF that the coin is genuine but it makes little difference unless you sell it. I might suggest trying to find out what you can about how your father came to own the item and where it was assembled. The gold could be tested and compared to the fashions of places you know your father visited.
..that's a purdy neat heirloom!.. i'd lean toward authentic coin, but it's a nice piece as a keepsake and sorry for your loss. it shouldn't be too costly to repair "if" you wanted it so...
Ancient Greek, not Roman, though these coins were struck in Italy (in what was a Greek colony at the time). That looks like an older setting, perhaps 19th century (Victorian) or even 18th century (Georgian). I'm not fully versed in such things, so take that assessment with the proverbial grain of salt, but it's a neat piece of vintage jewelry. The lack of a hallmark also indicates it's pretty old, I would imagine. I'd leave the coin in it. Genuine coin or not, I think the whole thing is worth more together as jewelry than separately, if the coin were removed (note @dougsmit's comment). You'd just end up with an ex-jewelry ("problem") coin and some scrap gold if it was disassembled (not that you necessarily were planning on that). Worth more as an intact piece of antique jewelry, I'd say, especially if the pinback is repaired. Besides, it's a family heirloom. It's a really neat piece.
Can you get a loupe and check the reverse as there seems to be a lozenge mark on the right side just below 3 o'clock, could be a makers mark or gold content.
The brooch, though obviously modern, is very Greek in style. A very lovely thing even if the coin is not authentic.
Gosh, how amazing. Thank you all so much for sharing your incredible knowledge. I'll attempt to take a better picture of the reverse side tomorrow. My camera really isn't up to doing such close-ups, but I'll try. The coin is really quite small, about 1.2 cm. I have no idea how my dad came to possess it. He always kept it in a box of old coins - not ancient ones I'm afraid - just old English pennies and things. As somebody above mentioned, actually I wasn't thinking of selling it. It's intrigued me since I was a kid. My dad thought it was a Roman coin. Now I wish I'd asked him where he got it. He didn't really travel widely, but when he was young, in the 1950s, he spent a couple of years living in Mogadishu, Somalia, and he talked of visiting places like Aden and Port Said. I wonder if he picked it up in Africa or the Middle East. Rather than selling it, I was wondering if it was worth getting the pin fixed (also gold, I'm afraid). Now I'll look into that. If it really is old, I guess that's a specialist job. I'll try to post a better image of the back tomorrow. Thanks!
"Obviously modern"? How so? I'm not contradicting you - I don't know, myself - but I got a much older vibe from the brooch. Admittedly, it's hard to tell.
Well I mean obviously modern by ancient coin standards. Around the 1800's or later perhaps? More likely something sold to tourists in the last 50-100 years. I'm just venturing an instinctive guess. It does look like it might have a small makers mark. Older jewelry featuring ancient coins often have more filigreed mounts, but we need a jewelry expert to weigh in on this, not me. I really like it though!
Thanks again everybody for your comments and opinions. For me, the nicest thing about this is how it has ignited in me an interest in ancient coins. I have always been fascinated by the Phoenicians/Greeks/Romans, but some of the images of coins I have seen are stunningly beautiful. My takeaway from what you have all said is that the only way to figure out if the coin is genuine, and the age of the setting, will be to get an expert to actually examine the thing. Photos aren't good enough. I have now examined it really closely and there are no hallmarks or any other kind of stamps. Since it obviously is gold, and has been made with great attention to detail, I'm assuming it was made by a genuine goldsmith. The lack of a hallmark suggests it is from before the time that hallmarks were introduced (late 1700s?). I truly wonder if fake coins were set in gold in those days. Surely if it was set later than that, say as a con for a tourist, the gold would be hallmarked to prove its value? A friend suggested to me that such coins were brought back by wealthy English folk doing the 'grand tour' of Europe. Seems like a reasonable idea that Lord Somebody-or-other might get his souvenir set into a piece of jewelry. Of course, it's a nice idea that if the coin really is more than 2000 years old, the entire brooch may also be ancient Greek...but that would be something for an expert to decide. In a couple of weeks I'm going to the UK (I'm based in Amsterdam). I'm going to see if I can get an opinion from somebody at the British Museum in London.
I had this thought as well. I very, very strongly doubt that you will find the brooch to be ancient. It's old, but not that old. I'm sticking with my wild guess assessment that it's late-Georgian to early-Victorian. Its construction doesn't look remotely like any of the ancient Greek gold jewelry I've seen. Well, now that's neat that you have such an opportunity. I wish I could tag along. Let us know what you find out!
While I agree the setting is likely to be Victorian, the motif is actually quite common to late Roman and Byzantine style, mostly seen in belt fittings. As for the coin, it looks genuine to me, but it should be shown to someone in person for a final determination. Whether genuine or not, the overall piece would not change in value.
