Too much cleaning?

I have found myself with some coins that need cleaning and since i'm new to collecting old coins i made some research on the web and dived into my first try of cleaning coins.
i have cleaned the dirt that was on the coin with water and brush and used a little sherp tool to clean more so i could make out what coin i have.
Now i have read that too much cleaning isn't good and collectors don't like a coin that has lost its patina and that's a no no to do.
In my cleaning i have taken some of the patina off (i'm not sure you can see it on the coin's photo's) and in some place's i have reached the base metal of the coin.


I quite like the final result and the way my coins looks.
But since i take my coin collecting seriously and everywhere i have looked i have read that its wrong to do here is my question: is there such a thing as a coin too much cleaned? and what if i like it this way?
Please let me know your opinions so i'll know what to do in my next time i clean coins.

 

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I forgot to mantion that a Valens
ob: DN VALENS PF AVG
Diademed (pearls), draped and cuirassed bust right
re: SECVRITAS REIPVBLICAE
Victory advancing left, holding wreath and palm.
mint: Aquileia
RIC: IX 9 b vii
(i hope i got it right)

 

Did you take a photo before you cleaned it? If so, please post it.

Steve

 

Some say any cleaning is too much. I disagree, as you have to clean some coins to have any chance of IDing them. That said, I liked the look of your coin before it was cleaned. I rarely clean coins anymore. But think you have found a good point to stop. If you keep going the pitting will stand out more and more and the coin gets a rather ugly shine.

 

Thank you for posting the “before” photo, @yossi schnitzer. Good thinking on your part to do that.

Well, as a rank newbie to ancients I have one observation and one question. I prefer the “after” result because the pre-cleaning coin doesn’t do much for me.

The question is: what kind of brush and sharp tool did you use?

I’m interested in what the experienced ancient crowd thinks of the result and the process you used.

Steve

 

The before photo wasn't my thinking . it was Stevearino so all credit goes to him.
I used a tooth brush that i had shortend its hair so it will become harder and i used a metal pic like the dentist used (that what i had for the moment)
Next time i will try with a wooden toothpick.
I used tap water with the pick and brush. but i have my next project soaking in olive oil for a few days to see how it will come out .

 

Your coin had a socalled desert patina , the common way to clean these sort of coins is to lightly clean the legends and the head and goddess , but leaving the patina in the fields.

Here's an example of my Titus:

 

I did try it that way at first. But brushing alone wasn't enough. couldn't make out the legend. had to go a little dipper and harder.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to be honest. The coin in the "after" picture is already overcleaned. I'm sure we've all done it. However, looking ahead, the result you got is not what you should be trying to get.

Reading the legends on a coin is an acquired skill that comes with patience, repetition, and good reference material. In this case, there was enough reverse detail clearly available before any cleaning to tell it was a SECVRITAS type for one of the Valentinians. The trick is knowing what options exist before you start to dig. In the same way, if you know where to find the name on the obverse of such a coin, you could have focused attention on that spot until you uncovered enough to let you figure out who it is. Then you stop. The sooner you can figure it out, the sooner you stop.

 

SO what exactly should i be trying to get? shouldn't my goal be getting the most clear view of the coin with as much details as can be seen?

 

I would agree with @lrbguy that the coin has been overcleaned. It's good that you experimented with an inexpensive coin. And I have made cleaning mistakes too.

Now, my approach is to underclean, especially until you have more experience. You can always go back and clean more. But once that patina is gone, it may not be back until long after you're gone too.

The overcleaning here seems to have highlighted a rough or pitted surface that a patina might have helped obscure. If you collect long enough, you will probably be able to identify many coins without having to make out every single letter of a legend in detail.

Keep at it though. You will find that balance.

 

Certainly not at the cost of patina, at least for most collectors. Sometimes "earthen fills" can serve to highlight features of a coin, resulting in greater eye appeal than a coin that is completely devoid of dirt.



Here's an example of a Constantius Chlorus antoninianus that I got in a group of uncleaneds. I started to scrape away the green earthen fill on the reverse--you can see clear patches in the exergue area. Then I changed my mind and decided that I liked the way the green earthen fill "sets off" the details. Now I wish I hadn't touched the reverse at all. Live and learn.

 

Brushes are not the way to go, use youre fingers or a piece of cloth.

Over time your coin will hopefully darkens a bit, It now looks overcleaned imho.

 

Not at the sacrifice of patina. Patina is not a coating. It is a conversion of coin metal at the surface into a non-metallic salt. This protects the deeper metal from deterioration on exposue,but tends to fuse with whatever material surrounds the coin while in the ground. In cleaning you need to learn how to separate the encrustation from the patina. When you sacrifice patina, you are losing some of the original coin metal, and it cannot be replaced. Thereafter the coin is damaged.

It is not an exaggeration to say that the patina is the lower limit for cleaning. The only exception is when the coin has damage or chemical activity at levels deeper than the patina. If you are new at this, you are probably not yet ready to deal with that. All in good time. But treasure the patina.

 

Hey guys, he is a new collector. A newbie needs to learn.

OP, it simply takes experience to know when to stop cleaning a coin. It is hard to know if what is underneath is worth removing some patina to show, or whether like your coin I would have guessed is most likely grainy and to stop at a "desert patina".

No real way to know, but I will say most spot finds like your coin, (most likely found buried in the dirt and not in a jar, you can tell by the layers of dirt on it), have some corrosion from the centuries. That is why most coins like this people stop at a "desert patina", because the coin underneath most likely has problems that removing all dirt and patina will expose.

Welcome to ancient collecting, full of regrets, trials and tribulations, and a whole lot of FUN. Don't sweat it, but learn from the experiences.

 

We got that, and we're here to help. But tell him the truth. So-called "desert patina" is not true patina. It is merely a well conformed encrustation that coats the outside of the coin. I think a lot of collectors are confused about that, and don't really understand what they are dealing with. Better to tell it straight right at the beginning when the question has been asked, as it has here. He is getting the straight stuff from sympathetic others who have been down that road.

 

I understand sir, and agree with your characterization of "desert patina". That is why I put it in quotes. I try to avoid those if possible, as I prefer real patina, especially the greens and rare blues.

I just thought he was getting a little too much "reality", and not enough "welcome to the hobby".

 

I believe the best answer for beginners is to buy coins that have a chance of being cleaned or that are attractive as they are even if this means paying more or buying fewer, more ordinary coins. I agree with lrbguy's excellent explanation of the patina being where to stop and medoraman's entire post but especially:

My suggestion is to start slowly and work into cleaning rather like you were training to be a surgeon. Your first operations will not involve a beating heart. You learn from hopeless cases and don't expect to be able to return life to cadavers. Later, you take little steps and do simple things as you learn your limitations at that particular stage of the game. After considerable experience, you might decide you will be doing heart transplants or you might be like me and decide that you are not cut out to be a coin cleaner. While ruining coins in your 'learning to clean' phase, you will learn to recognize coins someone else cleaned poorly, coins that might possibly be cleanable and the difference between the two.

 

Fair enough. He didn't say he was new to coins, just new to ancients. So to yossi schnitzer I say - welcome to the world of ancients. It may challenge you, but the rewards and joys far exceed the struggles. May you stay with it and gain the prize.